Is Remote Work Better?

[00:00:00.04 --> 00:00:05.56] convert kit I I think I've quoted them

[00:00:03.04 --> 00:00:08.60] before in the company uh they do

[00:00:05.56 --> 00:00:09.48] Retreats once a year where they go

[00:00:08.60 --> 00:00:10.84] somewhere and they're like you know

[00:00:09.48 --> 00:00:13.12] we're spending money on rent we're

[00:00:10.84 --> 00:00:15.08] spending money on this if we had offices

[00:00:13.12 --> 00:00:17.68] now let's go do a retreat somewhere

[00:00:15.08 --> 00:00:19.24] where it's all paid company expense it's

[00:00:17.68 --> 00:00:23.08] somewhere nearby like that people can

[00:00:19.24 --> 00:00:24.48] fly to that isn't crazy far away uh you

[00:00:23.08 --> 00:00:26.72] know they can bring their significant

[00:00:24.48 --> 00:00:28.76] others it's like a work trip but it's

[00:00:26.72 --> 00:00:30.72] it's very work life balance if somebody

[00:00:28.76 --> 00:00:32.80] uh chooses to do that

[00:00:30.72 --> 00:00:34.48] and uh it's a very cool networking

[00:00:32.80 --> 00:00:38.28] activity and they make it a point not to

[00:00:34.48 --> 00:00:41.08] work so it's not like a a working trip

[00:00:38.28 --> 00:00:42.88] it's like let's just connect um yeah

[00:00:41.08 --> 00:00:44.84] they would have activities and stuff

[00:00:42.88 --> 00:00:46.44] sorry to interrupt you right right yeah

[00:00:44.84 --> 00:00:49.32] activities but not like hey let's talk

[00:00:46.44 --> 00:00:53.24] about the new architecture plan for 2014

[00:00:49.32 --> 00:00:53.24] no it's like fun activities have

[00:00:53.74 --> 00:01:00.88] [Music]

[00:00:58.92 --> 00:01:02.96] fun

[00:01:00.88 --> 00:01:05.64] hi everyone I am

[00:01:02.96 --> 00:01:09.60] Mariana uh here with me we have faras

[00:01:05.64 --> 00:01:12.24] and laai uh we are from buttercloud a

[00:01:09.60 --> 00:01:14.16] tech company that helps uh clients

[00:01:12.24 --> 00:01:15.16] worldwide build their Tech teams their

[00:01:14.16 --> 00:01:19.20] Tech

[00:01:15.16 --> 00:01:22.36] Solutions uh we build software and uh

[00:01:19.20 --> 00:01:25.64] we're here to talk about our daily life

[00:01:22.36 --> 00:01:27.64] from work uh as well as some tips and

[00:01:25.64 --> 00:01:30.72] tricks we've discovered throughout our

[00:01:27.64 --> 00:01:34.80] journey building Tech products as well

[00:01:30.72 --> 00:01:36.88] as some uh company knowledge about

[00:01:34.80 --> 00:01:39.72] remote work itself because we're remote

[00:01:36.88 --> 00:01:42.08] only company and today's topic is going

[00:01:39.72 --> 00:01:46.32] to be actually about remote work and

[00:01:42.08 --> 00:01:50.92] remote Asing communication as well

[00:01:46.32 --> 00:01:53.56] so um let's start with you guys on your

[00:01:50.92 --> 00:01:54.44] ideas and opinions what is remote work

[00:01:53.56 --> 00:01:57.52] for

[00:01:54.44 --> 00:02:00.72] you what is remote work so let me kick

[00:01:57.52 --> 00:02:02.80] us off uh nice to meet you all

[00:02:00.72 --> 00:02:04.16] this is our uh one of our early podcast

[00:02:02.80 --> 00:02:08.80] episodes so we're

[00:02:04.16 --> 00:02:11.16] learning uh you know remote work uh for

[00:02:08.80 --> 00:02:13.88] us has been kind of a journey we've been

[00:02:11.16 --> 00:02:16.28] doing this since we started which was

[00:02:13.88 --> 00:02:19.32] around 2012 2013 and it's always been

[00:02:16.28 --> 00:02:23.44] pretty normal to us and then when Co

[00:02:19.32 --> 00:02:25.24] hit it became cool to be remote right

[00:02:23.44 --> 00:02:26.68] like people would come in yeah yeah it

[00:02:25.24 --> 00:02:27.80] became a necessity so everybody was like

[00:02:26.68 --> 00:02:30.44] we need to go back remote we need to go

[00:02:27.80 --> 00:02:31.72] home we need to go to the office yeah uh

[00:02:30.44 --> 00:02:34.00] and people started implementing all

[00:02:31.72 --> 00:02:36.16] these processes and we saw in our client

[00:02:34.00 --> 00:02:37.04] business a lot of our clients now are

[00:02:36.16 --> 00:02:39.16] remote

[00:02:37.04 --> 00:02:42.64] companies and what we discovered was

[00:02:39.16 --> 00:02:45.92] that a lot of them are let's say are

[00:02:42.64 --> 00:02:48.92] trying to apply let's say office culture

[00:02:45.92 --> 00:02:50.08] to remote work and in the same time

[00:02:48.92 --> 00:02:52.16] we've been trying to improve our

[00:02:50.08 --> 00:02:54.44] structure we've been growing as a team

[00:02:52.16 --> 00:02:56.32] and building in some remote processes

[00:02:54.44 --> 00:03:00.32] and we also have an office so we've kind

[00:02:56.32 --> 00:03:03.20] of seen both sides and uh We've Ended up

[00:03:00.32 --> 00:03:05.88] in a way where I think we have some

[00:03:03.20 --> 00:03:08.76] valuable things to say about remote work

[00:03:05.88 --> 00:03:10.80] overall in terms of processes I know

[00:03:08.76 --> 00:03:12.92] you're kind of big on the slack piece

[00:03:10.80 --> 00:03:15.64] the communication piece what are your

[00:03:12.92 --> 00:03:20.00] thoughts uh I agree with what you said

[00:03:15.64 --> 00:03:22.52] uh regarding you know the history um but

[00:03:20.00 --> 00:03:25.20] in my opinion you know uh taking the

[00:03:22.52 --> 00:03:27.16] office culture and putting it back into

[00:03:25.20 --> 00:03:30.36] like the putting it back into remote

[00:03:27.16 --> 00:03:34.20] work doesn't really work because

[00:03:30.36 --> 00:03:36.64] uh during like when you're at the office

[00:03:34.20 --> 00:03:40.32] everything happens spontaneously people

[00:03:36.64 --> 00:03:43.24] talk um with each other uh in the cooler

[00:03:40.32 --> 00:03:45.32] water cooler area you know while taking

[00:03:43.24 --> 00:03:49.04] a break these

[00:03:45.32 --> 00:03:50.88] things can't translate to remote work

[00:03:49.04 --> 00:03:53.64] because everything is written down

[00:03:50.88 --> 00:03:57.60] everything is on a platform

[00:03:53.64 --> 00:04:00.40] software uh and if you take that and

[00:03:57.60 --> 00:04:02.92] literally translate it into okay let's

[00:04:00.40 --> 00:04:06.92] do Zoom meetings every hour every other

[00:04:02.92 --> 00:04:08.64] hour with each other then you will you

[00:04:06.92 --> 00:04:11.40] will make your team

[00:04:08.64 --> 00:04:14.20] unproductive so you have to find a way

[00:04:11.40 --> 00:04:16.88] to translate it uh effectively so one

[00:04:14.20 --> 00:04:18.48] way is to do that is through converting

[00:04:16.88 --> 00:04:21.96] everything that's being said between the

[00:04:18.48 --> 00:04:24.40] team to written communication and I

[00:04:21.96 --> 00:04:26.88] don't mean like emails and all of that I

[00:04:24.40 --> 00:04:30.24] mean like you don't like emails

[00:04:26.88 --> 00:04:32.04] no lik emails emails are too formal you

[00:04:30.24 --> 00:04:34.84] know it's it's good with the clients and

[00:04:32.04 --> 00:04:37.32] stuff but for fast effective

[00:04:34.84 --> 00:04:41.16] communication I think chat rooms like

[00:04:37.32 --> 00:04:45.16] slack and Discord or whatever um are a

[00:04:41.16 --> 00:04:47.16] great way and uh clickup uh which is uh

[00:04:45.16 --> 00:04:48.80] what we use I'm a bit biased towards

[00:04:47.16 --> 00:04:52.92] these platforms because we've been using

[00:04:48.80 --> 00:04:55.88] them for a while now but for like quick

[00:04:52.92 --> 00:04:58.52] and easy conversations uh I prefer like

[00:04:55.88 --> 00:05:01.24] chat rooms and slack but for thoughtful

[00:04:58.52 --> 00:05:03.56] discussions and like opinions and stuff

[00:05:01.24 --> 00:05:06.60] like that I prefer like the long written

[00:05:03.56 --> 00:05:08.20] format of just spilling out your

[00:05:06.60 --> 00:05:10.00] thoughts and writing them into the

[00:05:08.20 --> 00:05:11.80] boring the boring yeah just

[00:05:10.00 --> 00:05:13.20] whatever you're thinking especially it

[00:05:11.80 --> 00:05:17.08] helps you especially

[00:05:13.20 --> 00:05:19.40] because it lets you uh think about what

[00:05:17.08 --> 00:05:21.96] you're going to say and filter it and

[00:05:19.40 --> 00:05:25.20] rethink it and rethink it and probably

[00:05:21.96 --> 00:05:27.72] the end product would be uh a very

[00:05:25.20 --> 00:05:30.56] concise straight to the point

[00:05:27.72 --> 00:05:33.40] comprehensive argumented yeah uh idea

[00:05:30.56 --> 00:05:35.28] pars yeah yeah so you don't let have you

[00:05:33.40 --> 00:05:37.76] don't have to let the others think that

[00:05:35.28 --> 00:05:41.68] much so yeah that's that's what I feel

[00:05:37.76 --> 00:05:46.20] like written communication is best um

[00:05:41.68 --> 00:05:48.60] and uh yeah yeah if you guys inter oh go

[00:05:46.20 --> 00:05:50.60] ahead Mar say yeah I'd like to mention

[00:05:48.60 --> 00:05:54.08] here that in our company for our

[00:05:50.60 --> 00:05:57.24] audience to know that we have uh kind of

[00:05:54.08 --> 00:05:59.00] uh made the translation of the water

[00:05:57.24 --> 00:06:01.96] cooler conversations into our office

[00:05:59.00 --> 00:06:04.00] hours so what we do is just like in

[00:06:01.96 --> 00:06:06.52] college universities how you have the

[00:06:04.00 --> 00:06:08.80] lecture having office hours after the

[00:06:06.52 --> 00:06:10.68] class to answer your questions and

[00:06:08.80 --> 00:06:12.72] everything which was new to me as well

[00:06:10.68 --> 00:06:15.60] because I've been working in remote

[00:06:12.72 --> 00:06:17.96] companies um for a while now for a few

[00:06:15.60 --> 00:06:20.04] years now but have never had the

[00:06:17.96 --> 00:06:22.24] experience of doing that which is

[00:06:20.04 --> 00:06:25.04] actually very useful because instead of

[00:06:22.24 --> 00:06:28.96] having Project based meetings every week

[00:06:25.04 --> 00:06:31.00] at straight strict hours uh which which

[00:06:28.96 --> 00:06:34.52] are some times becoming mundane and

[00:06:31.00 --> 00:06:36.84] boring and useless and very unproductive

[00:06:34.52 --> 00:06:39.08] instead we have these office hours where

[00:06:36.84 --> 00:06:41.04] we it's at first we usually have like

[00:06:39.08 --> 00:06:42.96] the first 10 to 15 minutes are

[00:06:41.04 --> 00:06:45.32] definitely water cooler conversations

[00:06:42.96 --> 00:06:46.96] where we ask about like the weather

[00:06:45.32 --> 00:06:49.80] because we're located in different

[00:06:46.96 --> 00:06:51.28] locations and like the cultural stuff

[00:06:49.80 --> 00:06:54.32] we're we're asking about each other's

[00:06:51.28 --> 00:06:56.40] lives because we're so um already in

[00:06:54.32 --> 00:06:58.92] some sense involved in that as well we

[00:06:56.40 --> 00:07:02.32] know about each other's lives in some

[00:06:58.92 --> 00:07:06.64] sense not details not the gossip like

[00:07:02.32 --> 00:07:08.96] like the actual office life has um but

[00:07:06.64 --> 00:07:11.28] that's also a transl that's a solution

[00:07:08.96 --> 00:07:15.72] that we have found to keep the social

[00:07:11.28 --> 00:07:17.64] element of people interactions and not

[00:07:15.72 --> 00:07:19.76] having just pure work and pure

[00:07:17.64 --> 00:07:22.36] productivity all the

[00:07:19.76 --> 00:07:23.76] time yeah I was I was about to say

[00:07:22.36 --> 00:07:26.40] something interesting on that note like

[00:07:23.76 --> 00:07:29.04] of the communication uh office hours is

[00:07:26.40 --> 00:07:32.28] nice we actually borrowed that from uh

[00:07:29.04 --> 00:07:36.16] the guy a base camp 37 signals I forget

[00:07:32.28 --> 00:07:37.28] which book unties but yeah okay uh well

[00:07:36.16 --> 00:07:39.36] they borrowed it in terms of

[00:07:37.28 --> 00:07:41.76] universities right they kind of applied

[00:07:39.36 --> 00:07:44.00] it in a work setting and it they're big

[00:07:41.76 --> 00:07:45.76] on remote work as well and I think in

[00:07:44.00 --> 00:07:47.24] practice like so you know we read about

[00:07:45.76 --> 00:07:49.84] it and stuff we did some research but

[00:07:47.24 --> 00:07:51.68] then in practice it's actually exceeded

[00:07:49.84 --> 00:07:54.56] my expectations in terms of

[00:07:51.68 --> 00:07:57.05] Effectiveness uh it's

[00:07:54.56 --> 00:07:58.32] uh it's a very good way

[00:07:57.05 --> 00:08:00.20] [Music]

[00:07:58.32 --> 00:08:02.36] to remove

[00:08:00.20 --> 00:08:04.44] meetings because you can just like for

[00:08:02.36 --> 00:08:06.76] me like it's been man it's been

[00:08:04.44 --> 00:08:09.52] wonderful because previously it was like

[00:08:06.76 --> 00:08:11.72] you know I have 10 15 people reaching

[00:08:09.52 --> 00:08:13.04] out to me hey can we meet to talk about

[00:08:11.72 --> 00:08:15.00] this can we meet to talk about this can

[00:08:13.04 --> 00:08:17.20] we to talk about this and then in you

[00:08:15.00 --> 00:08:19.68] have a a percentage of people that don't

[00:08:17.20 --> 00:08:20.48] want to reach out like they're maybe

[00:08:19.68 --> 00:08:22.20] they don't feel like they want to

[00:08:20.48 --> 00:08:23.60] interrupt you they feel like hey I know

[00:08:22.20 --> 00:08:27.44] you're busy we don't want to do this so

[00:08:23.60 --> 00:08:29.12] office hours has shifted that burden um

[00:08:27.44 --> 00:08:30.64] from kind of the over planning of you

[00:08:29.12 --> 00:08:32.68] know calendar invites and meetings and

[00:08:30.64 --> 00:08:35.72] what time are you free into you know two

[00:08:32.68 --> 00:08:37.88] two hour one and a half hour blocks

[00:08:35.72 --> 00:08:39.28] weekly and we got to convince more

[00:08:37.88 --> 00:08:40.52] people to like I think Ibrahim needs to

[00:08:39.28 --> 00:08:43.12] do it we got to convince more people on

[00:08:40.52 --> 00:08:46.40] the team to offer it and I like it to be

[00:08:43.12 --> 00:08:48.52] voluntary uh because like when Mariana

[00:08:46.40 --> 00:08:51.92] started her office hours like it was it

[00:08:48.52 --> 00:08:54.08] wasn't very busy right but right now you

[00:08:51.92 --> 00:08:55.64] know on Tuesdays I see people lining up

[00:08:54.08 --> 00:08:58.96] like hey tell me about my tasks tell me

[00:08:55.64 --> 00:09:01.12] about my projects uh L is taking kind of

[00:08:58.96 --> 00:09:04.12] a more you know shorter frequent

[00:09:01.12 --> 00:09:07.16] approach which I like it makes uh it

[00:09:04.12 --> 00:09:09.08] gives this uh nice support for everybody

[00:09:07.16 --> 00:09:11.32] to feel like I can just go in and talk

[00:09:09.08 --> 00:09:14.40] for five minutes 10 minutes I know some

[00:09:11.32 --> 00:09:17.52] people go in so it's nice to see each

[00:09:14.40 --> 00:09:18.92] person spin on like that on the office

[00:09:17.52 --> 00:09:21.16] hours where it's like either one long

[00:09:18.92 --> 00:09:24.84] session multiple small

[00:09:21.16 --> 00:09:26.44] ones uh but yeah I was going to say

[00:09:24.84 --> 00:09:27.88] something on the whole water cooler

[00:09:26.44 --> 00:09:29.40] office culture cuz we used to be in the

[00:09:27.88 --> 00:09:30.72] office zo and I work together in the

[00:09:29.40 --> 00:09:32.56] office for years and we wouldn't come

[00:09:30.72 --> 00:09:34.40] every day we'd go twice a week three

[00:09:32.56 --> 00:09:35.88] times a week whatever and we'd always

[00:09:34.40 --> 00:09:38.80] have great

[00:09:35.88 --> 00:09:41.32] conversations like I remember great

[00:09:38.80 --> 00:09:43.84] conversations on sometimes

[00:09:41.32 --> 00:09:45.16] right like politics and stuff like that

[00:09:43.84 --> 00:09:48.68] which

[00:09:45.16 --> 00:09:50.24] uh is something you miss I think and

[00:09:48.68 --> 00:09:51.56] it's usually like sometimes I would just

[00:09:50.24 --> 00:09:53.36] pop into the office for an hour and a

[00:09:51.56 --> 00:09:55.76] half after meetings and we just talk I

[00:09:53.36 --> 00:09:58.60] remember for like an hour me you the

[00:09:55.76 --> 00:09:59.68] guys uh sometimes we talk Tech stuff

[00:09:58.60 --> 00:10:01.12] Tech topics

[00:09:59.68 --> 00:10:03.36] sometimes we would be reflecting on like

[00:10:01.12 --> 00:10:04.80] a client meeting uh sometimes it would

[00:10:03.36 --> 00:10:06.16] turn into something that's learning

[00:10:04.80 --> 00:10:07.36] based like hey I think this is

[00:10:06.16 --> 00:10:08.76] interesting and it would just

[00:10:07.36 --> 00:10:12.92] conversation would

[00:10:08.76 --> 00:10:14.16] go uh those were really nice and I think

[00:10:12.92 --> 00:10:16.20] L the other day you and I went to the

[00:10:14.16 --> 00:10:18.72] office to grab something and I had this

[00:10:16.20 --> 00:10:20.64] like weird Nostalgia like I was sitting

[00:10:18.72 --> 00:10:22.08] there I was like man like cuz L's

[00:10:20.64 --> 00:10:23.12] traveling soon we're thinking of like we

[00:10:22.08 --> 00:10:25.40] don't need the office anymore

[00:10:23.12 --> 00:10:27.28] everybody's distributed remote so I was

[00:10:25.40 --> 00:10:30.20] feeling like I was like man like like I

[00:10:27.28 --> 00:10:32.72] miss like I miss this

[00:10:30.20 --> 00:10:34.32] physically yeah and then I was like you

[00:10:32.72 --> 00:10:37.08] know

[00:10:34.32 --> 00:10:38.60] what I don't when we were leaving like

[00:10:37.08 --> 00:10:40.44] we were leaving the parking lot right

[00:10:38.60 --> 00:10:41.88] and then the door got stuck and then we

[00:10:40.44 --> 00:10:43.24] had to call the guy to open the door and

[00:10:41.88 --> 00:10:44.32] then we got stuck in traffic if you

[00:10:43.24 --> 00:10:46.40] remember we went to your place and we

[00:10:44.32 --> 00:10:50.32] got stuck in like a crazy traffic job I

[00:10:46.40 --> 00:10:52.44] was like like this I do not miss

[00:10:50.32 --> 00:10:54.84] the traffic I don't miss the parking

[00:10:52.44 --> 00:10:57.36] situation like I'm not cool with any of

[00:10:54.84 --> 00:10:58.48] this so I kind of went back and forth

[00:10:57.36 --> 00:11:00.96] you know I enjoyed it when we were in

[00:10:58.48 --> 00:11:02.96] the office but now I'm like the traffic

[00:11:00.96 --> 00:11:04.76] we burned the whole day yeah like I was

[00:11:02.96 --> 00:11:06.32] home by 3:00 p.m. all we did was go like

[00:11:04.76 --> 00:11:07.96] grab a chair

[00:11:06.32 --> 00:11:09.68] right

[00:11:07.96 --> 00:11:12.40] uh

[00:11:09.68 --> 00:11:14.16] so I had mixed emotions when it came to

[00:11:12.40 --> 00:11:16.36] that but then now I realized that there

[00:11:14.16 --> 00:11:18.68] are some things that we could do as a

[00:11:16.36 --> 00:11:20.16] team long term to recreate that office

[00:11:18.68 --> 00:11:23.36] feeling and I've seen some companies do

[00:11:20.16 --> 00:11:25.76] really interesting stuff so uh

[00:11:23.36 --> 00:11:28.28] convertkit I think I've quoted them

[00:11:25.76 --> 00:11:31.36] before in the company uh they do

[00:11:28.28 --> 00:11:32.24] retreats once a year where they go

[00:11:31.36 --> 00:11:33.56] somewhere and they're like you know

[00:11:32.24 --> 00:11:35.88] we're spending money on rent we're

[00:11:33.56 --> 00:11:37.84] spending money on this if we had offices

[00:11:35.88 --> 00:11:40.44] now let's go do a retreat somewhere

[00:11:37.84 --> 00:11:42.00] where it's all paid company expense it's

[00:11:40.44 --> 00:11:45.84] somewhere nearby like that people can

[00:11:42.00 --> 00:11:47.24] fly to that isn't crazy far away uh you

[00:11:45.84 --> 00:11:49.48] know they can bring their significant

[00:11:47.24 --> 00:11:51.60] others it's like a work trip but it's

[00:11:49.48 --> 00:11:54.84] it's very work life Balan if somebody uh

[00:11:51.60 --> 00:11:56.32] chooses to do that and uh it's a very

[00:11:54.84 --> 00:11:58.60] cool networking activity and they make

[00:11:56.32 --> 00:12:02.08] it a point not to work so it's not like

[00:11:58.60 --> 00:12:04.84] a a working trip it's like let's just

[00:12:02.08 --> 00:12:06.40] connect um yeah they would have

[00:12:04.84 --> 00:12:08.40] activities and stuff sorry to interrupt

[00:12:06.40 --> 00:12:09.92] you right right yeah activities but not

[00:12:08.40 --> 00:12:12.92] like hey let's talk about the new

[00:12:09.92 --> 00:12:15.52] architecture plan for 2014 no it's like

[00:12:12.92 --> 00:12:17.92] fun activities fun so I think that's

[00:12:15.52 --> 00:12:19.68] pretty cool I think that in my head

[00:12:17.92 --> 00:12:21.44] after like leaving the office that day I

[00:12:19.68 --> 00:12:23.72] was thinking in my head that like if we

[00:12:21.44 --> 00:12:25.80] were to check a few more boxes in terms

[00:12:23.72 --> 00:12:27.36] of remote work because we already have

[00:12:25.80 --> 00:12:30.04] people all over like you're going to be

[00:12:27.36 --> 00:12:31.56] in Australia soon we have Vietnam we

[00:12:30.04 --> 00:12:34.92] have Bangladesh we have Pakistan we have

[00:12:31.56 --> 00:12:37.52] Lebanon we have Armenia we have Jordan

[00:12:34.92 --> 00:12:39.28] there's already so many cool spots if we

[00:12:37.52 --> 00:12:41.92] were to like do something either at one

[00:12:39.28 --> 00:12:44.08] of those places or somewhere in between

[00:12:41.92 --> 00:12:47.68] uh so I'm thinking if we check that

[00:12:44.08 --> 00:12:49.80] box build in a few more kind of uh

[00:12:47.68 --> 00:12:52.68] remote activities that aren't

[00:12:49.80 --> 00:12:54.44] boring it would fill that void of the

[00:12:52.68 --> 00:12:56.04] office I'm just trying to be real with

[00:12:54.44 --> 00:12:57.48] myself like because some podcasts will

[00:12:56.04 --> 00:13:00.76] go and be like remote work remote work

[00:12:57.48 --> 00:13:02.24] remote work screw the office but if I'm

[00:13:00.76 --> 00:13:05.48] going to be real about it there's some

[00:13:02.24 --> 00:13:08.48] magic to having people around in the

[00:13:05.48 --> 00:13:10.08] office uh but I do think it's outdated

[00:13:08.48 --> 00:13:11.52] in like 20 years like our kids are going

[00:13:10.08 --> 00:13:13.04] to laugh at this like what do you mean

[00:13:11.52 --> 00:13:17.36] youed to wake up in the morning sit in

[00:13:13.04 --> 00:13:21.96] traffic definitely yeah you're so true

[00:13:17.36 --> 00:13:24.04] another question to switch uh through uh

[00:13:21.96 --> 00:13:26.88] what do you think about productivity do

[00:13:24.04 --> 00:13:29.48] you think going to office makes you more

[00:13:26.88 --> 00:13:31.48] productive or being remote

[00:13:29.48 --> 00:13:34.60] is better in terms of productivity

[00:13:31.48 --> 00:13:37.60] because I was uh reading the news and

[00:13:34.60 --> 00:13:40.44] there's two very diverse directions

[00:13:37.60 --> 00:13:43.64] people are going CEOs are going because

[00:13:40.44 --> 00:13:47.68] for example Elon Musk is super office

[00:13:43.64 --> 00:13:50.68] oriented uh CEO of uh his company and

[00:13:47.68 --> 00:13:52.48] he's even I'm probably sure I'm sure you

[00:13:50.68 --> 00:13:54.80] probably seen the fact that like he's

[00:13:52.48 --> 00:13:59.00] even sleeping in his office whenever

[00:13:54.80 --> 00:14:01.96] things are like hard and under pressure

[00:13:59.00 --> 00:14:04.92] so and whenever he's asked about that

[00:14:01.96 --> 00:14:07.24] he's saying that the office has this

[00:14:04.92 --> 00:14:09.84] sphere that makes people productive

[00:14:07.24 --> 00:14:12.76] meanwhile there's the other contrasting

[00:14:09.84 --> 00:14:14.28] point where uh I think it was Dropbox

[00:14:12.76 --> 00:14:17.16] CEO

[00:14:14.28 --> 00:14:19.60] and they they they say that if you trust

[00:14:17.16 --> 00:14:21.64] people to do their job they're going to

[00:14:19.60 --> 00:14:24.44] do their job it's not like they're not

[00:14:21.64 --> 00:14:27.28] adults you what he's saying is trust

[00:14:24.44 --> 00:14:29.12] over surveillance which I really love

[00:14:27.28 --> 00:14:31.20] because I've been in situation with

[00:14:29.12 --> 00:14:33.48] remote work where even the trust is

[00:14:31.20 --> 00:14:35.60] broken because they don't have trust

[00:14:33.48 --> 00:14:38.92] into any of the remote workers but

[00:14:35.60 --> 00:14:41.76] they've chosen remote work at first so

[00:14:38.92 --> 00:14:44.04] what's your take on this I think trust

[00:14:41.76 --> 00:14:46.16] is like the most important aspect of

[00:14:44.04 --> 00:14:47.28] remote work without trust uh everything

[00:14:46.16 --> 00:14:50.84] would fall

[00:14:47.28 --> 00:14:52.80] apart uh so Elon Musk going in and

[00:14:50.84 --> 00:14:55.76] saying you know the office is much

[00:14:52.80 --> 00:14:58.48] better and remote workers are uh what

[00:14:55.76 --> 00:15:01.92] was this quote detached from reality

[00:14:58.48 --> 00:15:04.12] yeah yeah yeah yeah I think it's just uh

[00:15:01.92 --> 00:15:06.84] a CEO

[00:15:04.12 --> 00:15:09.80] not not looking at the bigger picture

[00:15:06.84 --> 00:15:12.12] and not wanting to fail on his like

[00:15:09.80 --> 00:15:15.96] investment of the office like the office

[00:15:12.12 --> 00:15:18.44] space you know so uh if Elon Musk

[00:15:15.96 --> 00:15:20.96] doesn't trust remote work then he

[00:15:18.44 --> 00:15:24.68] doesn't trust his employees so this is

[00:15:20.96 --> 00:15:27.48] an extension of of that uh and we all

[00:15:24.68 --> 00:15:29.16] know how Twitter is going so um yeah

[00:15:27.48 --> 00:15:31.48] before you go into details for us I

[00:15:29.16 --> 00:15:33.96] wanted to mention something about trust

[00:15:31.48 --> 00:15:36.20] usually people say that in terms of

[00:15:33.96 --> 00:15:37.76] psychology you don't trust someone

[00:15:36.20 --> 00:15:40.40] because you're not sure if you would do

[00:15:37.76 --> 00:15:42.16] the same in the exact same situation

[00:15:40.40 --> 00:15:45.04] because I'm thinking that he's probably

[00:15:42.16 --> 00:15:48.00] not even trusting himself to be

[00:15:45.04 --> 00:15:50.08] productive uh outside of office that's

[00:15:48.00 --> 00:15:52.28] why he's not trust trusting his

[00:15:50.08 --> 00:15:55.08] employees to do that so I think it comes

[00:15:52.28 --> 00:15:58.24] from that point like a deeper

[00:15:55.08 --> 00:15:59.28] psychological aspect of it as well yeah

[00:15:58.24 --> 00:16:02.24] good point

[00:15:59.28 --> 00:16:04.16] Point yeah in defense of like Elon Musk

[00:16:02.24 --> 00:16:06.52] I think

[00:16:04.16 --> 00:16:09.60] uh so they're doing if you think of

[00:16:06.52 --> 00:16:13.64] their businesses like SpaceX you know

[00:16:09.60 --> 00:16:16.36] Tesla uh X right

[00:16:13.64 --> 00:16:18.52] now they're especially SpaceX and Tesla

[00:16:16.36 --> 00:16:20.04] you're talking about a lot of things

[00:16:18.52 --> 00:16:22.00] that are knowledge work but they might

[00:16:20.04 --> 00:16:23.12] be physical right obviously we all know

[00:16:22.00 --> 00:16:27.04] like if you work in a factory you can't

[00:16:23.12 --> 00:16:29.20] work remotely that's a given uh but I

[00:16:27.04 --> 00:16:31.40] think also with X and Twitter like in

[00:16:29.20 --> 00:16:33.32] defense of that situation when they when

[00:16:31.40 --> 00:16:35.04] he came in I think they let go 80% of

[00:16:33.32 --> 00:16:37.72] the team I don't know what the I might

[00:16:35.04 --> 00:16:38.96] be miscoding the number 80 so that

[00:16:37.72 --> 00:16:41.04] probably means there was a lot of

[00:16:38.96 --> 00:16:43.00] mismanagement and already kind of a

[00:16:41.04 --> 00:16:44.44] polluted culture if they had to let go

[00:16:43.00 --> 00:16:47.60] that many people and it remain running

[00:16:44.44 --> 00:16:49.72] and the extension of that is to say look

[00:16:47.60 --> 00:16:51.48] no more remote work because there might

[00:16:49.72 --> 00:16:53.00] be some abuse happening because he kind

[00:16:51.48 --> 00:16:53.72] of inherited a culture when he bought

[00:16:53.00 --> 00:16:55.40] the

[00:16:53.72 --> 00:16:57.84] company

[00:16:55.40 --> 00:16:59.52] um you mean he want to shake things up

[00:16:57.84 --> 00:17:00.60] you know he wants to shake things up

[00:16:59.52 --> 00:17:02.12] right like come back to the office I

[00:17:00.60 --> 00:17:06.04] want to see who's actually working you

[00:17:02.12 --> 00:17:09.16] know and and the trust maybe was already

[00:17:06.04 --> 00:17:11.56] like broken I think in a sense that that

[00:17:09.16 --> 00:17:14.96] between the team and the

[00:17:11.56 --> 00:17:16.48] management uh so I just have a question

[00:17:14.96 --> 00:17:18.16] like for Marana what do you think of

[00:17:16.48 --> 00:17:21.16] that since you're like the clickup

[00:17:18.16 --> 00:17:23.52] master and project manager like uh do

[00:17:21.16 --> 00:17:28.24] you think that's valid productivity what

[00:17:23.52 --> 00:17:28.92] do you think um I'm going to tell that

[00:17:28.24 --> 00:17:30.92] uh

[00:17:28.92 --> 00:17:33.72] from your point that written

[00:17:30.92 --> 00:17:36.68] conversation makes it much better

[00:17:33.72 --> 00:17:39.60] because when you're uh basically since

[00:17:36.68 --> 00:17:42.44] in our company we have this policies or

[00:17:39.60 --> 00:17:44.48] like processes where when you're uh

[00:17:42.44 --> 00:17:47.08] blocked with something or you're

[00:17:44.48 --> 00:17:49.52] struggling with something you ping your

[00:17:47.08 --> 00:17:51.88] direct manager or someone who would be

[00:17:49.52 --> 00:17:55.68] able to help you that's a big plus so

[00:17:51.88 --> 00:17:58.44] you're not stuck with your task without

[00:17:55.68 --> 00:18:01.16] being noticed or something and you're

[00:17:58.44 --> 00:18:03.32] just stuck with that unproductive Loop

[00:18:01.16 --> 00:18:06.60] uh for a very long time instead we have

[00:18:03.32 --> 00:18:09.44] set up some processes that will help you

[00:18:06.60 --> 00:18:11.92] or guide you in a way to be productive

[00:18:09.44 --> 00:18:15.04] so we're like trying to open up our

[00:18:11.92 --> 00:18:17.16] hands and tell our our teammates that

[00:18:15.04 --> 00:18:21.52] we're here to help you if you're stuck

[00:18:17.16 --> 00:18:23.72] in any ways or uh the openness and like

[00:18:21.52 --> 00:18:25.92] the transparency of our company also

[00:18:23.72 --> 00:18:30.08] helps that productivity so I don't need

[00:18:25.92 --> 00:18:32.84] to lie that oh I miss the deadline cuz I

[00:18:30.08 --> 00:18:35.76] don't know my Grandpa's friend came over

[00:18:32.84 --> 00:18:38.92] and I couldn't do it just instead we

[00:18:35.76 --> 00:18:40.48] have this written conversation that

[00:18:38.92 --> 00:18:43.24] here's my state I'm going to be

[00:18:40.48 --> 00:18:46.68] unavailable for this hours and we know

[00:18:43.24 --> 00:18:50.00] exactly a set up hours of where where we

[00:18:46.68 --> 00:18:52.04] are available for chat or are available

[00:18:50.00 --> 00:18:55.76] to answer some questions which makes it

[00:18:52.04 --> 00:18:58.00] productive and um I know that there will

[00:18:55.76 --> 00:19:00.36] always be people who are unproductive

[00:18:58.00 --> 00:19:02.44] working remotely because that's their

[00:19:00.36 --> 00:19:03.92] personality that's their personal choice

[00:19:02.44 --> 00:19:06.92] and you cannot force them to be

[00:19:03.92 --> 00:19:09.92] productive remotely and I think that's

[00:19:06.92 --> 00:19:12.92] more on a personal decision

[00:19:09.92 --> 00:19:15.12] to realize that okay I don't think I'm

[00:19:12.92 --> 00:19:16.84] being efficient here I don't think like

[00:19:15.12 --> 00:19:19.36] the company's money is being spent

[00:19:16.84 --> 00:19:23.44] wisely on me where I'm not giving out

[00:19:19.36 --> 00:19:25.64] any output and instead uh we have I

[00:19:23.44 --> 00:19:29.12] don't think our okrs are perfect enough

[00:19:25.64 --> 00:19:32.12] to reflect each and everyone's input yet

[00:19:29.12 --> 00:19:35.08] just yet because we're uh building that

[00:19:32.12 --> 00:19:37.20] out crafting that one out but in terms

[00:19:35.08 --> 00:19:39.44] of the personal

[00:19:37.20 --> 00:19:41.56] accountability that one's definitely

[00:19:39.44 --> 00:19:45.56] pretty high in our company

[00:19:41.56 --> 00:19:47.60] because uh we're adults here just like

[00:19:45.56 --> 00:19:50.52] CEO of drop Dropbox was saying like

[00:19:47.60 --> 00:19:52.80] we're adults here we know how to be

[00:19:50.52 --> 00:19:54.56] accountable in front of ourselves first

[00:19:52.80 --> 00:19:56.44] and then in front of the company the

[00:19:54.56 --> 00:19:59.08] team the the people who are waiting for

[00:19:56.44 --> 00:20:02.24] our work to be done and in terms of

[00:19:59.08 --> 00:20:05.56] clickup being a very helpful tool where

[00:20:02.24 --> 00:20:07.40] you can comment out uh have any type of

[00:20:05.56 --> 00:20:09.68] discussion and you'll be immediately

[00:20:07.40 --> 00:20:12.48] notified about any updates on a task and

[00:20:09.68 --> 00:20:14.84] everything helps much more in terms of

[00:20:12.48 --> 00:20:16.88] remote work being efficient and

[00:20:14.84 --> 00:20:19.24] productive for sure I was about to say

[00:20:16.88 --> 00:20:22.52] the same thing right no no project

[00:20:19.24 --> 00:20:24.56] management no remote work like you could

[00:20:22.52 --> 00:20:27.04] get by in an office like we could all be

[00:20:24.56 --> 00:20:29.40] in an office right now and we could get

[00:20:27.04 --> 00:20:31.08] by without project management we can

[00:20:29.40 --> 00:20:32.52] even get by without clickup and we've

[00:20:31.08 --> 00:20:34.76] done that before we did that for a

[00:20:32.52 --> 00:20:35.92] period right where it's like all right

[00:20:34.76 --> 00:20:38.68] let's go to the Whiteboard what are we

[00:20:35.92 --> 00:20:41.20] working on one two three four five this

[00:20:38.68 --> 00:20:44.72] yours this year this yours if you have a

[00:20:41.20 --> 00:20:47.32] question just scream like you know so so

[00:20:44.72 --> 00:20:50.68] that's that's the that was the vibe and

[00:20:47.32 --> 00:20:52.28] uh we went to period where we would uh

[00:20:50.68 --> 00:20:53.72] we used different tools right we'll talk

[00:20:52.28 --> 00:20:55.44] about Tooling in a minute but we tried

[00:20:53.72 --> 00:20:57.44] like notion we tried a bunch of stuff

[00:20:55.44 --> 00:20:58.80] and almost all of the time we had

[00:20:57.44 --> 00:21:00.56] trouble keeping it up to date and

[00:20:58.80 --> 00:21:02.84] maintained not because of the tool but

[00:21:00.56 --> 00:21:05.00] because of us because of our processes

[00:21:02.84 --> 00:21:06.92] where we would maybe what we're working

[00:21:05.00 --> 00:21:08.28] on didn't align with like what was on

[00:21:06.92 --> 00:21:11.48] the project management tools because it

[00:21:08.28 --> 00:21:13.24] was out of date so we'd lose trust in it

[00:21:11.48 --> 00:21:17.04] uh but I was going to say on the topic

[00:21:13.24 --> 00:21:19.44] of trust and like you know all these

[00:21:17.04 --> 00:21:20.84] like Bankers coming in and saying you

[00:21:19.44 --> 00:21:23.08] have two weeks to come back to the

[00:21:20.84 --> 00:21:26.20] office have you seen like these news

[00:21:23.08 --> 00:21:27.80] yeah yeah it's crazy it's like in in Co

[00:21:26.20 --> 00:21:30.32] they were like okay go back to the go

[00:21:27.80 --> 00:21:32.16] back home here's a Herman Miller chair

[00:21:30.32 --> 00:21:36.08] here's a desk here's a big

[00:21:32.16 --> 00:21:38.60] screen just do good work and then after

[00:21:36.08 --> 00:21:39.64] covid because there's no more necessity

[00:21:38.60 --> 00:21:42.40] they're like you need to come back to

[00:21:39.64 --> 00:21:43.88] the office today and uh you have two

[00:21:42.40 --> 00:21:45.64] weeks or you're fired that's like that's

[00:21:43.88 --> 00:21:48.24] what's happening right now which is a

[00:21:45.64 --> 00:21:51.52] tragedy because I think once you've had

[00:21:48.24 --> 00:21:54.88] a taste of remote work you absolutely

[00:21:51.52 --> 00:21:56.64] cannot go back to an 8 to6 or 9: to5 or

[00:21:54.88 --> 00:21:58.72] whatever they call it these days right

[00:21:56.64 --> 00:22:00.48] like you can't go back and say

[00:21:58.72 --> 00:22:02.96] all right I'm going to wake up at 7:30

[00:22:00.48 --> 00:22:04.72] put on a buttonup shirt go to the office

[00:22:02.96 --> 00:22:08.08] come home sit in traffic be home by 700

[00:22:04.72 --> 00:22:09.84] p.m. maybe go to the gym take care of my

[00:22:08.08 --> 00:22:13.48] mental health you know

[00:22:09.84 --> 00:22:14.24] 10% and uh then go to sleep again and

[00:22:13.48 --> 00:22:16.48] wake

[00:22:14.24 --> 00:22:18.76] up I don't think you're going to be able

[00:22:16.48 --> 00:22:21.76] if somebody has had a taste of like a

[00:22:18.76 --> 00:22:23.44] truly results oriented environment where

[00:22:21.76 --> 00:22:24.24] it's based on your output like you said

[00:22:23.44 --> 00:22:27.00] like the

[00:22:24.24 --> 00:22:28.96] okrs that part's really hard to master

[00:22:27.00 --> 00:22:30.08] but if somebody has had a tast of this

[00:22:28.96 --> 00:22:33.12] you're going to have a lot of trouble

[00:22:30.08 --> 00:22:35.16] pulling them away from it personally you

[00:22:33.12 --> 00:22:37.88] could never pull me back into being

[00:22:35.16 --> 00:22:40.68] forced to go to an office five or six

[00:22:37.88 --> 00:22:42.80] days a week that's never going to happen

[00:22:40.68 --> 00:22:44.76] I will stay in my home office it's

[00:22:42.80 --> 00:22:46.44] already set up I'm here not going

[00:22:44.76 --> 00:22:49.60] anywhere got the

[00:22:46.44 --> 00:22:51.76] screen uh

[00:22:49.60 --> 00:22:53.32] and the the trust thing is really

[00:22:51.76 --> 00:22:56.76] important because I think what happens

[00:22:53.32 --> 00:22:59.92] is that no offense but business types

[00:22:56.76 --> 00:23:02.32] sometimes that maybe are not familiar

[00:22:59.92 --> 00:23:04.20] with kind of the the knowledge work

[00:23:02.32 --> 00:23:06.56] piece or how to do the stuff whether

[00:23:04.20 --> 00:23:07.92] it's uh a lack of understanding of

[00:23:06.56 --> 00:23:09.64] Technology a lack of understanding of

[00:23:07.92 --> 00:23:10.88] design these things that lend themselves

[00:23:09.64 --> 00:23:14.84] well to remote

[00:23:10.88 --> 00:23:17.76] work uh wake up in the morning and their

[00:23:14.84 --> 00:23:20.04] sole purpose to say okay what are these

[00:23:17.76 --> 00:23:20.76] 10 people that report to me what are

[00:23:20.04 --> 00:23:22.92] they

[00:23:20.76 --> 00:23:26.12] doing and because of a failure of

[00:23:22.92 --> 00:23:28.64] project management it turns

[00:23:26.12 --> 00:23:31.64] into you know I'm going to t you five

[00:23:28.64 --> 00:23:33.04] times a day M and I'm going to keep

[00:23:31.64 --> 00:23:36.16] asking you what you're doing and because

[00:23:33.04 --> 00:23:37.60] of a failure of communication remotely

[00:23:36.16 --> 00:23:39.72] it turns into okay you need to come back

[00:23:37.60 --> 00:23:42.60] to the office isn't working like that's

[00:23:39.72 --> 00:23:44.12] what it like it escalates to but I think

[00:23:42.60 --> 00:23:45.96] if you gar it from the get-go if that

[00:23:44.12 --> 00:23:47.36] person woke up in the morning and you

[00:23:45.96 --> 00:23:50.16] know rightfully they're doing their job

[00:23:47.36 --> 00:23:51.32] by making sure everybody has work to do

[00:23:50.16 --> 00:23:53.40] if they wake up in the morning and they

[00:23:51.32 --> 00:23:55.76] can just look at a board and understand

[00:23:53.40 --> 00:23:57.52] what's being worked on like they're good

[00:23:55.76 --> 00:23:58.92] to go cuz I had these struggles as we

[00:23:57.52 --> 00:24:00.24] grew cuz I would like get up in the

[00:23:58.92 --> 00:24:02.40] morning and I would be like all right

[00:24:00.24 --> 00:24:04.08] like you know we had somebody just

[00:24:02.40 --> 00:24:07.20] joined last month what are they working

[00:24:04.08 --> 00:24:09.64] on like what do they have and if they

[00:24:07.20 --> 00:24:12.08] don't have enough to work on and they

[00:24:09.64 --> 00:24:14.08] don't succeed at the company is it my

[00:24:12.08 --> 00:24:16.40] fault or their

[00:24:14.08 --> 00:24:19.28] fault that's kind of a big one like my

[00:24:16.40 --> 00:24:21.52] fault as their manager

[00:24:19.28 --> 00:24:23.56] essentially and we always say this you

[00:24:21.52 --> 00:24:25.24] and I like right it's the process not

[00:24:23.56 --> 00:24:26.72] the people so if you've hired that

[00:24:25.24 --> 00:24:28.76] person presumably they have the skill

[00:24:26.72 --> 00:24:30.00] set and the attitude to SU uced and then

[00:24:28.76 --> 00:24:32.88] they

[00:24:30.00 --> 00:24:34.56] fail it's either your process or maybe a

[00:24:32.88 --> 00:24:37.24] flawed hiring strategy most of the time

[00:24:34.56 --> 00:24:38.96] it's your process like most people will

[00:24:37.24 --> 00:24:40.52] succeed under a good process because

[00:24:38.96 --> 00:24:42.08] everybody wants to succeed everybody

[00:24:40.52 --> 00:24:44.76] wants to learn everybody wants to earn

[00:24:42.08 --> 00:24:48.92] and develop and learn and stuff so like

[00:24:44.76 --> 00:24:50.76] if your pro hiring process is good then

[00:24:48.92 --> 00:24:52.08] it's all about the process it's all

[00:24:50.76 --> 00:24:54.04] about the process all about the project

[00:24:52.08 --> 00:24:55.92] management and then the last kind of

[00:24:54.04 --> 00:24:58.40] element of that is what you you you guys

[00:24:55.92 --> 00:24:59.68] nailed it with trust right m so I think

[00:24:58.40 --> 00:25:02.68] if

[00:24:59.68 --> 00:25:06.08] uh if you and I don't have like a

[00:25:02.68 --> 00:25:09.08] pre-existing relationship of trust

[00:25:06.08 --> 00:25:11.16] then it's like the whole thing is doomed

[00:25:09.08 --> 00:25:12.16] to fail from day one and I think you've

[00:25:11.16 --> 00:25:16.20] seen this before have you seen the

[00:25:12.16 --> 00:25:19.40] companies that run like a tool on your

[00:25:16.20 --> 00:25:22.12] toolbar and it will take a

[00:25:19.40 --> 00:25:24.36] screenshot every few minutes Scot it

[00:25:22.12 --> 00:25:27.00] tracks send it to HR it tracks your

[00:25:24.36 --> 00:25:28.68] mouse your keyboard your ke some people

[00:25:27.00 --> 00:25:30.80] have some softare like to combat that

[00:25:28.68 --> 00:25:32.68] where they're running uh like a

[00:25:30.80 --> 00:25:34.16] thing that like moves the mouse around

[00:25:32.68 --> 00:25:36.40] every once in a while to give the

[00:25:34.16 --> 00:25:39.40] illusion of work

[00:25:36.40 --> 00:25:40.80] mhm so whose fault is that like how do

[00:25:39.40 --> 00:25:42.96] like do you blame the person running the

[00:25:40.80 --> 00:25:45.16] software to move the mouse or do you

[00:25:42.96 --> 00:25:48.12] blame a lack of process or D like the

[00:25:45.16 --> 00:25:49.72] predatory company that wants to like

[00:25:48.12 --> 00:25:51.96] some of them have webcams that takes a

[00:25:49.72 --> 00:25:55.40] picture of you to make sure you're

[00:25:51.96 --> 00:25:58.48] working yeah imagine my God so many

[00:25:55.40 --> 00:26:01.76] things wrong with that yeah I was going

[00:25:58.48 --> 00:26:03.36] to say that um it a few things came to

[00:26:01.76 --> 00:26:05.84] my mind the first thing was the

[00:26:03.36 --> 00:26:08.72] liquidity of the company that's a very

[00:26:05.84 --> 00:26:11.52] big sign in terms of remote company

[00:26:08.72 --> 00:26:13.40] culture SL processes and just like you

[00:26:11.52 --> 00:26:15.76] said if the processes are set up

[00:26:13.40 --> 00:26:18.00] correctly the the the people are not

[00:26:15.76 --> 00:26:21.16] liquid so like people are not going in

[00:26:18.00 --> 00:26:22.96] and coming out pretty fast uh just like

[00:26:21.16 --> 00:26:26.40] with my previous experiences where we

[00:26:22.96 --> 00:26:28.52] would have like within a few months time

[00:26:26.40 --> 00:26:30.20] when I was working I've been introduced

[00:26:28.52 --> 00:26:32.68] to so many new designers and new

[00:26:30.20 --> 00:26:34.24] developers and the old ones would leave

[00:26:32.68 --> 00:26:37.12] that I was wondering like what's wrong

[00:26:34.24 --> 00:26:39.68] with this system why are they running

[00:26:37.12 --> 00:26:41.72] away and then I ran away myself too

[00:26:39.68 --> 00:26:44.12] because I realized that the environment

[00:26:41.72 --> 00:26:46.16] is toxic there's no trust the processes

[00:26:44.12 --> 00:26:48.16] are bad the hiring is bad as well

[00:26:46.16 --> 00:26:50.68] because like they're not putting enough

[00:26:48.16 --> 00:26:53.72] efforts into vetting the right people

[00:26:50.68 --> 00:26:55.72] into the company and then the other

[00:26:53.72 --> 00:26:58.84] thing that I wanted to mention here is

[00:26:55.72 --> 00:27:01.00] that uh productivity also comes from the

[00:26:58.84 --> 00:27:03.04] comfort of mind because you're not

[00:27:01.00 --> 00:27:05.96] trying to juggle a few things at the

[00:27:03.04 --> 00:27:09.68] same time and trying to fit in uh social

[00:27:05.96 --> 00:27:12.56] component into your life of 9 to5 office

[00:27:09.68 --> 00:27:14.44] uh or like struggling to have be

[00:27:12.56 --> 00:27:18.08] physically active because like the gym

[00:27:14.44 --> 00:27:21.08] is already packed after the office hours

[00:27:18.08 --> 00:27:23.56] and you're not willing to do that yeah

[00:27:21.08 --> 00:27:25.88] it's not the best experience and if you

[00:27:23.56 --> 00:27:28.20] have any doctor's appointment any type

[00:27:25.88 --> 00:27:30.40] of appointment that is regarding your

[00:27:28.20 --> 00:27:32.48] health or you regarding your well-being

[00:27:30.40 --> 00:27:35.16] and you're unable to do it within the 9

[00:27:32.48 --> 00:27:36.92] to5 working day meanwhile with the

[00:27:35.16 --> 00:27:39.32] remote work you have the comfort of

[00:27:36.92 --> 00:27:41.96] choosing your own date and time and

[00:27:39.32 --> 00:27:44.20] especially us not having fixed meetings

[00:27:41.96 --> 00:27:46.84] every week about the project that you're

[00:27:44.20 --> 00:27:50.20] forced to be in you're forced to present

[00:27:46.84 --> 00:27:52.36] to the client instead we use I wanted to

[00:27:50.20 --> 00:27:54.88] mention I noted this down to also

[00:27:52.36 --> 00:27:58.20] mention to our viewers as well because

[00:27:54.88 --> 00:28:01.68] like we always say Loom over a meeting

[00:27:58.20 --> 00:28:03.84] that's a loom video showcasing all the

[00:28:01.68 --> 00:28:06.40] details of the project all the updates

[00:28:03.84 --> 00:28:08.40] that you want to tell and you're pretty

[00:28:06.40 --> 00:28:10.20] visual about it it's not like you're

[00:28:08.40 --> 00:28:13.36] just sending a voice recording and it's

[00:28:10.20 --> 00:28:16.60] not it's too vague or something else but

[00:28:13.36 --> 00:28:19.56] we're we're uh always saying that like

[00:28:16.60 --> 00:28:22.32] Loom is our best uh one of the best

[00:28:19.56 --> 00:28:24.84] tools that we're using and I fully agree

[00:28:22.32 --> 00:28:27.52] that it's giving the comfort of not

[00:28:24.84 --> 00:28:29.88] being forced into a meeting when you're

[00:28:27.52 --> 00:28:31.56] not able to join at that moment or are

[00:28:29.88 --> 00:28:33.64] not willing to talk at that moment

[00:28:31.56 --> 00:28:36.00] because like you're you're more focused

[00:28:33.64 --> 00:28:39.16] on work at that time and in that like if

[00:28:36.00 --> 00:28:41.00] you're more productive the last night

[00:28:39.16 --> 00:28:43.80] where obviously the client is not going

[00:28:41.00 --> 00:28:47.20] to be able to join a meeting just

[00:28:43.80 --> 00:28:50.12] because you decided to work on uh

[00:28:47.20 --> 00:28:53.40] midnight instead you can just record a

[00:28:50.12 --> 00:28:55.36] loom and give also the Comfort to the

[00:28:53.40 --> 00:28:57.56] other people to review it whenever

[00:28:55.36 --> 00:29:00.04] they're available exactly cuz clients by

[00:28:57.56 --> 00:29:01.56] the way don't like meetings either so so

[00:29:00.04 --> 00:29:03.52] the client is waking up in the morning

[00:29:01.56 --> 00:29:05.88] and saying I would like to have a

[00:29:03.52 --> 00:29:07.84] meeting that's not because they love to

[00:29:05.88 --> 00:29:09.84] sit there and commit for an hour or two

[00:29:07.84 --> 00:29:11.60] hours especially startup Founders like

[00:29:09.84 --> 00:29:13.44] they they want to live life they want to

[00:29:11.60 --> 00:29:15.76] take it relaxed but they're coming from

[00:29:13.44 --> 00:29:17.44] a perspective of you know what's

[00:29:15.76 --> 00:29:18.56] happening with my project that's why I

[00:29:17.44 --> 00:29:20.52] want to have this meeting I want to see

[00:29:18.56 --> 00:29:22.84] upates so if you yeah yeah for sure if

[00:29:20.52 --> 00:29:24.20] you proactively reach out to them and

[00:29:22.84 --> 00:29:25.72] we're we're building that into our

[00:29:24.20 --> 00:29:27.60] offering right now like I think Mariana

[00:29:25.72 --> 00:29:29.96] you know about that very too on the C

[00:29:27.60 --> 00:29:31.84] portal like we are going to have like a

[00:29:29.96 --> 00:29:33.80] feed where you can see updates about

[00:29:31.84 --> 00:29:34.88] your project continuously because that's

[00:29:33.80 --> 00:29:37.80] the type of media we're used to

[00:29:34.88 --> 00:29:40.76] consuming now it's on demand like if I

[00:29:37.80 --> 00:29:42.56] want to use an analogy meetings are

[00:29:40.76 --> 00:29:44.56] almost like watching TV remember when we

[00:29:42.56 --> 00:29:46.84] were kids you'd pull up the TV like oh

[00:29:44.56 --> 00:29:48.96] there's a movie yeah oh I missed

[00:29:46.84 --> 00:29:49.88] the first 20 minutes of the movie you're

[00:29:48.96 --> 00:29:52.00] out of

[00:29:49.88 --> 00:29:53.36] luck that's exactly what it's like

[00:29:52.00 --> 00:29:56.76] versus on demand where you go in you

[00:29:53.36 --> 00:29:58.92] pull up Netflix you start a movie mhm uh

[00:29:56.76 --> 00:30:01.40] that's what like Gloom is like they can

[00:29:58.92 --> 00:30:04.20] see their updates on demand whenever

[00:30:01.40 --> 00:30:05.96] they want replay them 100 times see

[00:30:04.20 --> 00:30:08.12] exactly what's happening same thing

[00:30:05.96 --> 00:30:09.64] applies to internal teams I think uh I

[00:30:08.12 --> 00:30:12.44] was about to say something to comment on

[00:30:09.64 --> 00:30:15.48] on what you said Mariana with

[00:30:12.44 --> 00:30:17.60] uh like the workouts and mental health

[00:30:15.48 --> 00:30:20.08] and you guys you probably I don't know

[00:30:17.60 --> 00:30:22.04] if you all you notice I disappear for

[00:30:20.08 --> 00:30:24.88] maybe two hours in the middle of the day

[00:30:22.04 --> 00:30:26.80] M like I'm not reachable I'm responding

[00:30:24.88 --> 00:30:29.08] on my phone yeah and I usually will go

[00:30:26.80 --> 00:30:31.88] to the gym

[00:30:29.08 --> 00:30:34.52] I'll do a 15minute

[00:30:31.88 --> 00:30:35.92] sauna and I'll be thinking about like

[00:30:34.52 --> 00:30:38.68] I'll be like auditing our projects I'm

[00:30:35.92 --> 00:30:41.12] like hm so for this project what's next

[00:30:38.68 --> 00:30:42.64] like that's me I put on the airpods with

[00:30:41.12 --> 00:30:45.28] the noise canceling and that's what I'm

[00:30:42.64 --> 00:30:46.52] doing and I will come back an hour later

[00:30:45.28 --> 00:30:50.48] very

[00:30:46.52 --> 00:30:53.44] refreshed extremely in a great mood MH

[00:30:50.48 --> 00:30:55.44] uh able to tackle on you know whatever

[00:30:53.44 --> 00:30:58.00] it is I have no matter how hard it is

[00:30:55.44 --> 00:30:59.44] with a whole list of ideas in our dm

[00:30:58.00 --> 00:31:00.96] with the whole list of ideas and

[00:30:59.44 --> 00:31:02.96] sometimes I will send you guys like a

[00:31:00.96 --> 00:31:05.24] barrage of like emails and and not

[00:31:02.96 --> 00:31:09.64] emails like slack messages and voice not

[00:31:05.24 --> 00:31:12.08] sometimes like just to document yeah uh

[00:31:09.64 --> 00:31:13.76] so that's really important to me as a

[00:31:12.08 --> 00:31:15.20] person like regardless of remote work

[00:31:13.76 --> 00:31:18.60] regardless of where I work regardless of

[00:31:15.20 --> 00:31:19.92] the company if I can't have that because

[00:31:18.60 --> 00:31:22.84] look we're all on this Earth for

[00:31:19.92 --> 00:31:25.08] whatever however many years we could all

[00:31:22.84 --> 00:31:27.80] get hopefully nobody here but we could

[00:31:25.08 --> 00:31:30.52] get hit by a bus tomorrow if you get hit

[00:31:27.80 --> 00:31:32.52] by a bus and you've burned the first 35

[00:31:30.52 --> 00:31:34.32] years of your life like walking into an

[00:31:32.52 --> 00:31:38.08] office how do you feel like in the

[00:31:34.32 --> 00:31:39.92] moment where that bus hits you like damn

[00:31:38.08 --> 00:31:42.12] these are the things I think

[00:31:39.92 --> 00:31:44.48] about

[00:31:42.12 --> 00:31:47.40] existential right right did I waste it

[00:31:44.48 --> 00:31:49.96] so yeah not to mention like your health

[00:31:47.40 --> 00:31:53.00] mental health your relationships can all

[00:31:49.96 --> 00:31:55.44] like ultimately be effective I'm not

[00:31:53.00 --> 00:31:56.84] like a huge proponent of me mental

[00:31:55.44 --> 00:31:58.12] health in terms of like the structured

[00:31:56.84 --> 00:31:59.88] approach but I do feel like you need to

[00:31:58.12 --> 00:32:02.04] do things every day you need to have

[00:31:59.88 --> 00:32:04.48] rituals that make you feel good rituals

[00:32:02.04 --> 00:32:06.52] that uh build

[00:32:04.48 --> 00:32:07.84] relationships a little bit kind of like

[00:32:06.52 --> 00:32:10.60] on a tangent have you guys seen the

[00:32:07.84 --> 00:32:12.64] documentary with uh like the blue zones

[00:32:10.60 --> 00:32:16.44] on Netflix all these people that live to

[00:32:12.64 --> 00:32:20.16] like 12 one ton no I haven't seen that

[00:32:16.44 --> 00:32:21.68] so they go through area by area and they

[00:32:20.16 --> 00:32:23.64] find the largest amount of people

[00:32:21.68 --> 00:32:25.60] centurions I think they call them people

[00:32:23.64 --> 00:32:29.88] that have lived to 100 years or

[00:32:25.60 --> 00:32:31.96] older and like long story short some of

[00:32:29.88 --> 00:32:33.76] them you know alcohol they say is bad

[00:32:31.96 --> 00:32:35.60] but some of them still drink every

[00:32:33.76 --> 00:32:38.44] night

[00:32:35.60 --> 00:32:40.68] uh uh food you know you have like people

[00:32:38.44 --> 00:32:42.04] that are vegan people that eat carnivore

[00:32:40.68 --> 00:32:43.96] people that eat a lot of fish people

[00:32:42.04 --> 00:32:47.60] that nobody can agree on the right foods

[00:32:43.96 --> 00:32:49.56] to eat but you know there's a mix of

[00:32:47.60 --> 00:32:52.24] different diets there's some patterns of

[00:32:49.56 --> 00:32:55.32] like healthy fats and fish and

[00:32:52.24 --> 00:32:57.64] stuff but the biggest thing that holds

[00:32:55.32 --> 00:33:00.08] it all together is a sense of community

[00:32:57.64 --> 00:33:03.32] and wellbeing for you as a person and

[00:33:00.08 --> 00:33:06.92] maybe less stress right exactly so it

[00:33:03.32 --> 00:33:08.52] all translates to less stress so uh we

[00:33:06.92 --> 00:33:14.72] can all agree sitting in traffic for an

[00:33:08.52 --> 00:33:17.80] hour two hours a day for 36 or 270 days

[00:33:14.72 --> 00:33:20.44] a year is a horrible horrible way to

[00:33:17.80 --> 00:33:22.36] live so I think this all contributes to

[00:33:20.44 --> 00:33:23.92] your wellness and the last thing I'll

[00:33:22.36 --> 00:33:26.72] mention which it's a quote I really like

[00:33:23.92 --> 00:33:29.28] we've talked about this before uh Naval

[00:33:26.72 --> 00:33:33.04] on Twitter or on his podcast

[00:33:29.28 --> 00:33:36.00] says uh that you know the whole 8 to5 or

[00:33:33.04 --> 00:33:38.00] 9 to-5 strict schedule where it's like

[00:33:36.00 --> 00:33:40.72] not results based but it's like a strict

[00:33:38.00 --> 00:33:42.60] schedule where you show up was created

[00:33:40.72 --> 00:33:43.44] back in the day when people were working

[00:33:42.60 --> 00:33:46.32] in

[00:33:43.44 --> 00:33:48.16] factories yeah they were putting widgets

[00:33:46.32 --> 00:33:50.84] on exactly they were doing something on

[00:33:48.16 --> 00:33:52.32] assembly line Industrial Revolution it

[00:33:50.84 --> 00:33:54.40] would move through and they were good to

[00:33:52.32 --> 00:33:58.28] go right now the type of work we're

[00:33:54.40 --> 00:34:00.48] doing is knowledge work so so it's not

[00:33:58.28 --> 00:34:02.52] about your physical health or strength

[00:34:00.48 --> 00:34:05.16] it's about your mental well-being

[00:34:02.52 --> 00:34:07.92] because you're in the proc the way you

[00:34:05.16 --> 00:34:10.52] succeed is through good decision

[00:34:07.92 --> 00:34:12.28] making that's how we succeed if you make

[00:34:10.52 --> 00:34:14.76] poor decisions at work or in your

[00:34:12.28 --> 00:34:17.32] personal life you fail if you make good

[00:34:14.76 --> 00:34:19.08] decisions you succeed and to make good

[00:34:17.32 --> 00:34:20.56] decisions you have to have the right

[00:34:19.08 --> 00:34:23.48] mindset the right frame of mind you have

[00:34:20.56 --> 00:34:26.56] to be relax you have to be well right

[00:34:23.48 --> 00:34:28.52] mentally and physically as well right

[00:34:26.56 --> 00:34:30.08] because

[00:34:28.52 --> 00:34:31.32] if you go through that path and you work

[00:34:30.08 --> 00:34:33.24] on those habits you work on those

[00:34:31.32 --> 00:34:36.04] routines and you make good decisions you

[00:34:33.24 --> 00:34:38.12] don't need to work for 15 hours a day

[00:34:36.04 --> 00:34:40.24] you can get by on a solid like five

[00:34:38.12 --> 00:34:42.92] hours a day guys I hate to say it like

[00:34:40.24 --> 00:34:45.76] publicly but like a good five six hours

[00:34:42.92 --> 00:34:48.32] a day if anybody comes to you and claims

[00:34:45.76 --> 00:34:51.80] that they're working 16 hour days I

[00:34:48.32 --> 00:34:53.88] would argue that 50% of that is probably

[00:34:51.80 --> 00:34:57.52] not real work it's busy work and not

[00:34:53.88 --> 00:35:01.08] like truly effective yeah yeah exactly

[00:34:57.52 --> 00:35:02.84] it's it's not effective it's all uh

[00:35:01.08 --> 00:35:06.80] maybe they've been distracted like half

[00:35:02.84 --> 00:35:08.32] of the time yeah not focused yeah very

[00:35:06.80 --> 00:35:09.68] true yeah yeah we've been through that

[00:35:08.32 --> 00:35:12.52] La where sometimes at the office we

[00:35:09.68 --> 00:35:16.68] would like you know be there all day but

[00:35:12.52 --> 00:35:17.88] we shooting ping pong and like like just

[00:35:16.68 --> 00:35:20.24] talking about politics and stuff

[00:35:17.88 --> 00:35:23.28] shooting the sh which is nice

[00:35:20.24 --> 00:35:25.84] but you know productivity wise let's say

[00:35:23.28 --> 00:35:29.56] results wise like in terms of success of

[00:35:25.84 --> 00:35:31.52] company if we spend three to six

[00:35:29.56 --> 00:35:34.48] effective hours where you're truly

[00:35:31.52 --> 00:35:36.12] focused and you're doing work

[00:35:34.48 --> 00:35:37.80] uninterrupted it's going to buy you're

[00:35:36.12 --> 00:35:41.08] going to BU far if everybody on the team

[00:35:37.80 --> 00:35:43.52] does that in our 20 person 15 person

[00:35:41.08 --> 00:35:45.92] company we are going to beat out every

[00:35:43.52 --> 00:35:47.76] other 15% company that doesn't do that

[00:35:45.92 --> 00:35:49.52] because it's good decisions good

[00:35:47.76 --> 00:35:52.48] well-being yeah as you said because your

[00:35:49.52 --> 00:35:54.36] mental health is better so you sure do

[00:35:52.48 --> 00:35:55.92] better the next day and the next day and

[00:35:54.36 --> 00:35:57.60] the next day you're more pleasant you're

[00:35:55.92 --> 00:35:59.48] nice to talk to you're delivering better

[00:35:57.60 --> 00:36:01.04] quality code you're delivering better

[00:35:59.48 --> 00:36:03.88] quality project management designs

[00:36:01.04 --> 00:36:06.28] whatever that is everything is just good

[00:36:03.88 --> 00:36:08.20] yeah I just want to add yeah exactly I

[00:36:06.28 --> 00:36:09.68] just want to add something about uh the

[00:36:08.20 --> 00:36:12.28] your schedule so you said you went to

[00:36:09.68 --> 00:36:15.00] the gym you came back so a lot of people

[00:36:12.28 --> 00:36:17.80] have these like uh natural natural

[00:36:15.00 --> 00:36:21.00] routines right in in our brains like

[00:36:17.80 --> 00:36:24.04] some people might be very energetic in

[00:36:21.00 --> 00:36:27.68] the morning some people the opposite at

[00:36:24.04 --> 00:36:30.72] night so remote work Works around your

[00:36:27.68 --> 00:36:34.40] uh biology let's say so for me for

[00:36:30.72 --> 00:36:36.88] example I usually around 3: 2: p.m. I

[00:36:34.40 --> 00:36:39.60] start to like just fall asleep you know

[00:36:36.88 --> 00:36:41.04] I'm just grumpy afternoon slump yeah

[00:36:39.60 --> 00:36:43.44] yeah yeah I just want to take a nap you

[00:36:41.04 --> 00:36:45.56] know yeah so I I just go ahead and take

[00:36:43.44 --> 00:36:47.72] an nap you know I come back and like

[00:36:45.56 --> 00:36:50.76] okay have a cup of coffee whatever drink

[00:36:47.72 --> 00:36:53.56] some water I'm good to go but if I were

[00:36:50.76 --> 00:36:56.08] in like an office situation like I I

[00:36:53.56 --> 00:36:57.56] can't take a nap unless like it's a cool

[00:36:56.08 --> 00:37:01.64] office where they have nap rooms and

[00:36:57.56 --> 00:37:05.16] stuff yeah yeah we're not that cool yeah

[00:37:01.64 --> 00:37:07.24] and I would be grumpy and unproductive

[00:37:05.16 --> 00:37:08.92] and just browse Hacker News all day and

[00:37:07.24 --> 00:37:11.12] watch YouTube you know just

[00:37:08.92 --> 00:37:13.88] procrastinate and it would be 6 pm and

[00:37:11.12 --> 00:37:17.24] I'm like oh what did I do nothing

[00:37:13.88 --> 00:37:19.52] yeah yeah so just taking na like working

[00:37:17.24 --> 00:37:21.52] around your biology is is great that's

[00:37:19.52 --> 00:37:23.36] true yeah yeah productivity wise that's

[00:37:21.52 --> 00:37:24.80] the only way to go like it's funny just

[00:37:23.36 --> 00:37:27.20] to go back to original topic you just

[00:37:24.80 --> 00:37:28.84] reminded me when you said Hacker News so

[00:37:27.20 --> 00:37:31.24] some of the companies do the the

[00:37:28.84 --> 00:37:33.08] screenshots every like few minutes and

[00:37:31.24 --> 00:37:35.52] it will'll send it to HR even one of our

[00:37:33.08 --> 00:37:36.84] team members not to be mentioned one of

[00:37:35.52 --> 00:37:38.32] our developers told me that that's what

[00:37:36.84 --> 00:37:40.56] they used to do in his previous company

[00:37:38.32 --> 00:37:44.24] he was shocked like when he came in here

[00:37:40.56 --> 00:37:47.36] that we're not doing that uh I'm like

[00:37:44.24 --> 00:37:51.08] I'm shocked you're telling me this you

[00:37:47.36 --> 00:37:54.20] know a whole shift of Minds yeah yeah

[00:37:51.08 --> 00:37:56.92] and and it's equivalent if you think

[00:37:54.20 --> 00:38:00.08] about it to you sitting on your lap top

[00:37:56.92 --> 00:38:02.36] or computer at the office and your boss

[00:38:00.08 --> 00:38:04.44] coming in looking at what you're doing

[00:38:02.36 --> 00:38:06.24] hey what are you working on exactly

[00:38:04.44 --> 00:38:08.64] staring at you all day from behind like

[00:38:06.24 --> 00:38:10.20] his desk would be uh behind you and he

[00:38:08.64 --> 00:38:11.36] would see the entire office like you

[00:38:10.20 --> 00:38:15.68] would see all the

[00:38:11.36 --> 00:38:17.88] screen yeah the same thing yeah exactly

[00:38:15.68 --> 00:38:19.32] and and it's funny because when I first

[00:38:17.88 --> 00:38:21.88] graduated from

[00:38:19.32 --> 00:38:24.20] University I interviewed at a company

[00:38:21.88 --> 00:38:27.28] also not to be named it was in Boulder

[00:38:24.20 --> 00:38:30.32] Colorado uh this was year and years ago

[00:38:27.28 --> 00:38:32.60] this was like 2011 you may know this

[00:38:30.32 --> 00:38:34.40] story and like they flew me out like

[00:38:32.60 --> 00:38:36.72] they flew me out to Boulder and this

[00:38:34.40 --> 00:38:39.08] company built Financial software for

[00:38:36.72 --> 00:38:41.32] like stuff you see on CNBC Goldman soch

[00:38:39.08 --> 00:38:44.20] like very interesting stuff I remember

[00:38:41.32 --> 00:38:46.28] they had three or 400 employees and uh

[00:38:44.20 --> 00:38:48.96] the office layout was very cool it was

[00:38:46.28 --> 00:38:50.40] very hip it was like brick and exposed

[00:38:48.96 --> 00:38:53.64] wood all the stuff that you want in the

[00:38:50.40 --> 00:38:55.52] startup office and we get there and I

[00:38:53.64 --> 00:38:57.56] remember there was a big glass office in

[00:38:55.52 --> 00:39:00.20] the middle

[00:38:57.56 --> 00:39:03.20] with a guy with a Bluetooth heads

[00:39:00.20 --> 00:39:05.44] walking around and just on a phone call

[00:39:03.20 --> 00:39:06.96] and I remember asking the lady from HR I

[00:39:05.44 --> 00:39:09.08] was like who's that she's like oh that's

[00:39:06.96 --> 00:39:10.60] the the founder of our company like he

[00:39:09.08 --> 00:39:13.40] comes here every day he's here very

[00:39:10.60 --> 00:39:16.60] early and he leaves very

[00:39:13.40 --> 00:39:18.64] late and as soon as somebody tells you

[00:39:16.60 --> 00:39:20.88] that so right if your boss is coming in

[00:39:18.64 --> 00:39:22.44] at 7: a.m. and they're leaving at 7:00

[00:39:20.88 --> 00:39:24.60] p.m. or 8:00

[00:39:22.44 --> 00:39:26.84] p.m. now let's say you were to go home

[00:39:24.60 --> 00:39:29.28] at 6:00 do you feel guilty seeing him

[00:39:26.84 --> 00:39:31.36] still there be like oh I shouldn't

[00:39:29.28 --> 00:39:33.56] be going home like even maybe you've had

[00:39:31.36 --> 00:39:36.20] a productive day but I think you feel

[00:39:33.56 --> 00:39:37.68] there's a sense of guilt built into that

[00:39:36.20 --> 00:39:39.44] and I remember seeing that environment

[00:39:37.68 --> 00:39:41.12] and I was like do you so are you okay

[00:39:39.44 --> 00:39:43.08] with remote work this was years ago

[00:39:41.12 --> 00:39:45.24] before remote work was cool like you

[00:39:43.08 --> 00:39:49.80] know we're open to it if your priorities

[00:39:45.24 --> 00:39:52.16] are clear and but they didn't

[00:39:49.80 --> 00:39:53.80] have an environment that encouraged

[00:39:52.16 --> 00:39:55.60] remote work across the board and we've

[00:39:53.80 --> 00:39:57.60] seen that problem before right so let's

[00:39:55.60 --> 00:39:59.96] say uh three of us are in the office

[00:39:57.60 --> 00:40:01.24] three of us are remote in a in a very

[00:39:59.96 --> 00:40:04.60] small

[00:40:01.24 --> 00:40:05.64] company how do the three people at home

[00:40:04.60 --> 00:40:08.56] do you feel like they're going to be

[00:40:05.64 --> 00:40:11.72] looped in to the

[00:40:08.56 --> 00:40:15.20] processes like how would that work like

[00:40:11.72 --> 00:40:16.32] let's say you have 50/50 yeah like

[00:40:15.20 --> 00:40:20.00] original point about written

[00:40:16.32 --> 00:40:21.48] communication so right so like if we're

[00:40:20.00 --> 00:40:23.04] sitting next to each other we should

[00:40:21.48 --> 00:40:27.80] write on

[00:40:23.04 --> 00:40:30.12] stock so this is what like remote uh ADV

[00:40:27.80 --> 00:40:32.20] say like if you have a conversation on

[00:40:30.12 --> 00:40:35.00] the side always write it down write the

[00:40:32.20 --> 00:40:36.72] summary down what happened and just post

[00:40:35.00 --> 00:40:38.40] it out to the team let everyone know

[00:40:36.72 --> 00:40:41.88] that this happened well that's probably

[00:40:38.40 --> 00:40:44.28] not we've seen this with our

[00:40:41.88 --> 00:40:47.28] clients like with our clients for us you

[00:40:44.28 --> 00:40:49.16] know uh not to name any names but like

[00:40:47.28 --> 00:40:51.36] some of the team would be at home and

[00:40:49.16 --> 00:40:53.04] some would be at the office and then the

[00:40:51.36 --> 00:40:55.40] people at the office would have these ad

[00:40:53.04 --> 00:40:57.52] hoc meetings like let's go for a

[00:40:55.40 --> 00:40:59.16] cigarette and like talk about the

[00:40:57.52 --> 00:41:00.60] something the dreaded cigarette yeah

[00:40:59.16 --> 00:41:03.08] yeah they would talk and talk and talk

[00:41:00.60 --> 00:41:05.52] and they they would fill out an entire

[00:41:03.08 --> 00:41:07.64] like project pipeline in that out the

[00:41:05.52 --> 00:41:09.80] whole road map over two cigarettes right

[00:41:07.64 --> 00:41:11.60] yeah yeah and those people at at home

[00:41:09.80 --> 00:41:13.92] wouldn't know anything about it wouldn't

[00:41:11.60 --> 00:41:16.64] contribute to anything with in that

[00:41:13.92 --> 00:41:19.48] conversation so they're left out so they

[00:41:16.64 --> 00:41:21.20] would feel like they're like they're

[00:41:19.48 --> 00:41:23.28] unproductive at home so they would be

[00:41:21.20 --> 00:41:26.32] forced like internally to go to the

[00:41:23.28 --> 00:41:29.76] office and like take smoking C breaks

[00:41:26.32 --> 00:41:32.88] and stuff like that so this culture

[00:41:29.76 --> 00:41:36.68] like uh forces people to come back to

[00:41:32.88 --> 00:41:39.68] the office without explicitly saying

[00:41:36.68 --> 00:41:41.68] it yeah yeah it says like hey you're not

[00:41:39.68 --> 00:41:45.04] one of us like you're not with us you're

[00:41:41.68 --> 00:41:47.60] not one yeah so you missed out on some

[00:41:45.04 --> 00:41:50.88] earlier cigarette

[00:41:47.60 --> 00:41:55.72] conversations and sorry they're horrible

[00:41:50.88 --> 00:41:56.84] yeah so and yeah just to just mention

[00:41:55.72 --> 00:41:59.84] what you said

[00:41:56.84 --> 00:42:01.84] uh the your the boss like being the

[00:41:59.84 --> 00:42:04.76] there from 7:00 a.m. to 7: p.m. and

[00:42:01.84 --> 00:42:10.00] people going home early or coming in

[00:42:04.76 --> 00:42:13.28] like late 9:00 am. uh they would feel

[00:42:10.00 --> 00:42:15.92] like they're giving off a bad impression

[00:42:13.28 --> 00:42:17.80] and the boss would feel like they would

[00:42:15.92 --> 00:42:20.68] take the impression that this person

[00:42:17.80 --> 00:42:22.76] isn't an effective team player or

[00:42:20.68 --> 00:42:27.00] they're not productive you know and this

[00:42:22.76 --> 00:42:30.32] would all play a role unconsciously with

[00:42:27.00 --> 00:42:33.04] bias like in their heads when they're up

[00:42:30.32 --> 00:42:35.88] for a promotion or when they're up for

[00:42:33.04 --> 00:42:38.40] uh like anything like bonuses whatever

[00:42:35.88 --> 00:42:40.64] they would say like oh yeah I like this

[00:42:38.40 --> 00:42:43.04] person you know he's productive but like

[00:42:40.64 --> 00:42:45.68] is he that productive you know like this

[00:42:43.04 --> 00:42:47.32] other person goes to the office uh 12

[00:42:45.68 --> 00:42:50.44] hours a day and this person goes 10

[00:42:47.32 --> 00:42:52.68] hours a day so this would be like

[00:42:50.44 --> 00:42:54.84] running inside their head so it's it's

[00:42:52.68 --> 00:42:57.68] not they won't say it explicitly but

[00:42:54.84 --> 00:42:59.36] it's a advice sure they could be doing

[00:42:57.68 --> 00:43:01.92] problem the best work in the world right

[00:42:59.36 --> 00:43:03.72] yeah yeah but if you don't show up and

[00:43:01.92 --> 00:43:06.16] we're not seeing you uh you're not

[00:43:03.72 --> 00:43:08.32] actually doing the work to if you're not

[00:43:06.16 --> 00:43:09.84] one of us yeah if they think that to add

[00:43:08.32 --> 00:43:11.76] up on the conversation because we're

[00:43:09.84 --> 00:43:15.12] suffering why can't you suffer with us

[00:43:11.76 --> 00:43:16.28] right yeah one way to look at it yes to

[00:43:15.12 --> 00:43:20.12] add up to the

[00:43:16.28 --> 00:43:22.92] conversation uh just like I was saying

[00:43:20.12 --> 00:43:25.76] LOM Loom will be a better solution in

[00:43:22.92 --> 00:43:26.92] this case cuz even if you're out of

[00:43:25.76 --> 00:43:29.52] office

[00:43:26.92 --> 00:43:31.96] distributed all over the place all over

[00:43:29.52 --> 00:43:34.04] the globe Blom would be a better

[00:43:31.96 --> 00:43:37.00] solution to involve everyone into the

[00:43:34.04 --> 00:43:39.20] conversation that you you've had or like

[00:43:37.00 --> 00:43:41.72] in into the discussion and like the

[00:43:39.20 --> 00:43:44.28] results that you've thought of so like

[00:43:41.72 --> 00:43:47.76] sharing it with everyone and it takes me

[00:43:44.28 --> 00:43:50.44] to another idea that makes remote work

[00:43:47.76 --> 00:43:53.44] better at least in our company is a

[00:43:50.44 --> 00:43:57.44] shared vision of uh the company itself

[00:43:53.44 --> 00:44:01.24] so we always have discussions both in uh

[00:43:57.44 --> 00:44:03.28] office hours and um in terms of uh

[00:44:01.24 --> 00:44:05.64] written communication and Loom videos we

[00:44:03.28 --> 00:44:08.84] always discuss where we're going what

[00:44:05.64 --> 00:44:12.28] are our goals uh why are we doing this

[00:44:08.84 --> 00:44:15.88] so as a project manager I have come to

[00:44:12.28 --> 00:44:18.60] an understanding that always uh

[00:44:15.88 --> 00:44:21.48] communication of the common goal and the

[00:44:18.60 --> 00:44:23.68] objective and people actually having

[00:44:21.48 --> 00:44:25.52] that same objective as the team lead as

[00:44:23.68 --> 00:44:26.92] the project manager or the program

[00:44:25.52 --> 00:44:30.08] manager

[00:44:26.92 --> 00:44:32.48] having that same sense of direction and

[00:44:30.08 --> 00:44:35.20] having it internally as well that you

[00:44:32.48 --> 00:44:36.84] know that that is a realistic goal that

[00:44:35.20 --> 00:44:39.44] we're going through and I have my

[00:44:36.84 --> 00:44:42.40] contribution to it and what size my

[00:44:39.44 --> 00:44:46.40] contribution is about and how can I help

[00:44:42.40 --> 00:44:49.00] to achieve this goal helps the best uh

[00:44:46.40 --> 00:44:51.84] in terms of especially remote work to be

[00:44:49.00 --> 00:44:54.48] productive to be goal oriented to know

[00:44:51.84 --> 00:44:56.68] where the company is going and that

[00:44:54.48 --> 00:44:59.56] makes it so much more efficient and

[00:44:56.68 --> 00:45:01.48] effective uh to work as a distributed

[00:44:59.56 --> 00:45:03.60] team because everyone knows why we're

[00:45:01.48 --> 00:45:06.92] doing this it's not like I wake up in

[00:45:03.60 --> 00:45:08.68] the morning and say like me like I may

[00:45:06.92 --> 00:45:10.36] not do it just today because like I

[00:45:08.68 --> 00:45:11.96] don't feel like it and I don't think

[00:45:10.36 --> 00:45:14.28] it's going to be effective it's not

[00:45:11.96 --> 00:45:16.80] going to result in anything instead I

[00:45:14.28 --> 00:45:19.76] know that like if I check my messages

[00:45:16.80 --> 00:45:22.36] earlier like if I uh give some more

[00:45:19.76 --> 00:45:24.40] detailed reports or like more detailed

[00:45:22.36 --> 00:45:27.76] conversations with my teammates that

[00:45:24.40 --> 00:45:29.92] will definitely defin result in better

[00:45:27.76 --> 00:45:33.04] outcomes or better deliverables and I

[00:45:29.92 --> 00:45:35.40] see it both like physically in terms of

[00:45:33.04 --> 00:45:37.84] the app development for example or like

[00:45:35.40 --> 00:45:41.36] team hiring or something like that but

[00:45:37.84 --> 00:45:44.08] also it gives me the pleasure of doing

[00:45:41.36 --> 00:45:46.88] something that had a contribution that

[00:45:44.08 --> 00:45:48.96] had an effect because we as human beings

[00:45:46.88 --> 00:45:52.36] psychologically like seeing results like

[00:45:48.96 --> 00:45:55.16] we don't like doing stuff that turn into

[00:45:52.36 --> 00:45:59.40] nothing yeah so the vision of the

[00:45:55.16 --> 00:46:01.60] company being uh nested into each of the

[00:45:59.40 --> 00:46:04.28] team members is definitely one of the

[00:46:01.60 --> 00:46:06.36] thing key things that uh makes the

[00:46:04.28 --> 00:46:09.04] remote work

[00:46:06.36 --> 00:46:12.28] work and another thing that I wanted to

[00:46:09.04 --> 00:46:14.44] mention uh two things actually one is

[00:46:12.28 --> 00:46:17.52] although we don't have people we don't

[00:46:14.44 --> 00:46:19.68] have teammates with kids but having a

[00:46:17.52 --> 00:46:22.76] kid I've noticed that all of my friends

[00:46:19.68 --> 00:46:25.60] who have kids and who are remote have

[00:46:22.76 --> 00:46:28.72] all the comfort of spending time with

[00:46:25.60 --> 00:46:32.28] their kids and not losing the ability to

[00:46:28.72 --> 00:46:35.08] be with their workmates to uh grow their

[00:46:32.28 --> 00:46:37.04] career simultaneously while maintaining

[00:46:35.08 --> 00:46:40.64] a family so they don't have to have a

[00:46:37.04 --> 00:46:42.16] choice of either family or work instead

[00:46:40.64 --> 00:46:45.24] this remote work is giving you the

[00:46:42.16 --> 00:46:47.88] ability to not lose the years not lose

[00:46:45.24 --> 00:46:49.92] the pace that you were on not lose the

[00:46:47.88 --> 00:46:52.64] uh updates of the current word

[00:46:49.92 --> 00:46:56.16] especially like nowadays the fast pace

[00:46:52.64 --> 00:46:58.04] that the word is on and not to be behind

[00:46:56.16 --> 00:47:01.24] because especially from a more

[00:46:58.04 --> 00:47:03.12] feministic view that women do get left

[00:47:01.24 --> 00:47:04.92] behind because of that because of the

[00:47:03.12 --> 00:47:08.84] office nto5

[00:47:04.92 --> 00:47:11.84] setups definitely yeah and it also gives

[00:47:08.84 --> 00:47:13.96] a sad reality yeah and and and I always

[00:47:11.84 --> 00:47:16.20] remember at the end of the week when I

[00:47:13.96 --> 00:47:18.16] review all my tasks what I've done and

[00:47:16.20 --> 00:47:19.92] all the results that I've gotten and

[00:47:18.16 --> 00:47:22.84] like when I'm planning for the next week

[00:47:19.92 --> 00:47:24.88] I always see that um I didn't work as

[00:47:22.84 --> 00:47:27.76] many hours as I thought I was going to

[00:47:24.88 --> 00:47:29.96] be and then I realized that it's not the

[00:47:27.76 --> 00:47:31.92] amount of hours and the quantity of

[00:47:29.96 --> 00:47:34.40] hours that I've put in but rather the

[00:47:31.92 --> 00:47:36.60] quality of the hours because remote work

[00:47:34.40 --> 00:47:38.84] allows you to work whenever you're

[00:47:36.60 --> 00:47:40.60] focused whenever you're willing to do

[00:47:38.84 --> 00:47:43.40] the work whenever you're productive and

[00:47:40.60 --> 00:47:45.16] are willing to finish like from start to

[00:47:43.40 --> 00:47:46.84] the end or like even if it's a big

[00:47:45.16 --> 00:47:49.00] project and you're not going to finish

[00:47:46.84 --> 00:47:50.64] it but rather contribute when you're

[00:47:49.00 --> 00:47:53.36] feeling that you're productive instead

[00:47:50.64 --> 00:47:55.04] of being stuck in the office and be like

[00:47:53.36 --> 00:47:57.20] I don't think I'm able to do this right

[00:47:55.04 --> 00:48:00.24] now like I may come back to this

[00:47:57.20 --> 00:48:02.76] tomorrow but I don't feel like it right

[00:48:00.24 --> 00:48:05.36] now and and and then goes the

[00:48:02.76 --> 00:48:08.80] unproductive Loop in the

[00:48:05.36 --> 00:48:12.28] offices yeah

[00:48:08.80 --> 00:48:14.68] I sorry go

[00:48:12.28 --> 00:48:17.80] ahead say something about like the

[00:48:14.68 --> 00:48:21.52] vision imagine an a new team member

[00:48:17.80 --> 00:48:23.80] joining um uh the company then they

[00:48:21.52 --> 00:48:27.80] would have an archive of all the things

[00:48:23.80 --> 00:48:31.24] that was said recorded written down all

[00:48:27.80 --> 00:48:34.68] there for them to see so there isn't any

[00:48:31.24 --> 00:48:37.68] let's say uh vagueness or confusion

[00:48:34.68 --> 00:48:41.12] about that so that helps like even new

[00:48:37.68 --> 00:48:43.40] employees joining the team yeah yeah I

[00:48:41.12 --> 00:48:46.92] was about to actually jump in like to

[00:48:43.40 --> 00:48:50.56] kind of another uh topic sort of which

[00:48:46.92 --> 00:48:53.20] is on that that front of good like what

[00:48:50.56 --> 00:48:55.84] are the what are some good processes so

[00:48:53.20 --> 00:48:59.28] you know maybe we have uh some people

[00:48:55.84 --> 00:49:01.20] listening that are either startup

[00:48:59.28 --> 00:49:02.56] Founders uh maybe they're small

[00:49:01.20 --> 00:49:04.84] companies maybe they're big companies

[00:49:02.56 --> 00:49:07.48] and they are trying to

[00:49:04.84 --> 00:49:08.88] adopt not feel guilty about doing remote

[00:49:07.48 --> 00:49:12.68] work because there's like a certain

[00:49:08.88 --> 00:49:14.96] sense of guilt like that that is out

[00:49:12.68 --> 00:49:17.04] there what are some good tools that

[00:49:14.96 --> 00:49:19.68] we've found are useful but more

[00:49:17.04 --> 00:49:21.36] importantly on what you said by when

[00:49:19.68 --> 00:49:24.00] bringing in new team members what is the

[00:49:21.36 --> 00:49:27.24] right attitude and what are good

[00:49:24.00 --> 00:49:29.24] processes to bring those people on where

[00:49:27.24 --> 00:49:32.12] they can read everything and I'll start

[00:49:29.24 --> 00:49:35.60] by weighing in and saying that

[00:49:32.12 --> 00:49:38.12] like if you were to give me you know a

[00:49:35.60 --> 00:49:39.68] file book website whatever it is and

[00:49:38.12 --> 00:49:42.60] tell me welcome to

[00:49:39.68 --> 00:49:45.00] BC here's what you need to read about

[00:49:42.60 --> 00:49:47.84] project XYZ so you could become

[00:49:45.00 --> 00:49:49.80] successful I would read it right I'm the

[00:49:47.84 --> 00:49:51.76] type that would go in I think a lot of

[00:49:49.80 --> 00:49:53.68] us are that type where it's like dude

[00:49:51.76 --> 00:49:56.48] like give me a 10-page manual for the

[00:49:53.68 --> 00:49:58.64] machine instructions let me understand

[00:49:56.48 --> 00:50:00.36] and I'm not doing it for because I

[00:49:58.64 --> 00:50:02.44] because I love this company that I just

[00:50:00.36 --> 00:50:05.28] joined I'm doing it because I selfishly

[00:50:02.44 --> 00:50:06.80] want to succeed like I want to

[00:50:05.28 --> 00:50:10.00] understand where I stand how to do

[00:50:06.80 --> 00:50:15.24] things so I can level up

[00:50:10.00 --> 00:50:16.84] right uh so in my like initial kind of

[00:50:15.24 --> 00:50:19.20] uh thought and I've never actually

[00:50:16.84 --> 00:50:21.64] thought about this I am now though is

[00:50:19.20 --> 00:50:23.72] there's a certain personality that works

[00:50:21.64 --> 00:50:26.32] with remote work and there's actually a

[00:50:23.72 --> 00:50:27.80] certain personality

[00:50:26.32 --> 00:50:30.28] I don't know psychologically what I'd

[00:50:27.80 --> 00:50:32.36] label those people as that cannot

[00:50:30.28 --> 00:50:35.24] absolutely succeed in remote

[00:50:32.36 --> 00:50:37.88] work and maybe that is like just to make

[00:50:35.24 --> 00:50:39.64] an assumption extreme extroverts that

[00:50:37.88 --> 00:50:41.92] can't sit in a

[00:50:39.64 --> 00:50:43.72] room I don't know I'm going to toss that

[00:50:41.92 --> 00:50:47.20] out do you think like an ex imagine I'm

[00:50:43.72 --> 00:50:49.36] an extreme extrovert I literally cannot

[00:50:47.20 --> 00:50:51.04] stay in this room for five minutes

[00:50:49.36 --> 00:50:51.76] without going insane which I'm not by

[00:50:51.04 --> 00:50:55.04] the

[00:50:51.76 --> 00:50:57.08] way there's Alternatives you know as as

[00:50:55.04 --> 00:51:01.08] for those people you can just go to a

[00:50:57.08 --> 00:51:03.00] cafe co-working space you can um you can

[00:51:01.08 --> 00:51:05.00] do meetups like with your friends and

[00:51:03.00 --> 00:51:06.80] say if like other people that work

[00:51:05.00 --> 00:51:08.72] remotely they just gather around at my

[00:51:06.80 --> 00:51:09.92] house your house whatever and just true

[00:51:08.72 --> 00:51:12.44] true true you know when we used to do

[00:51:09.92 --> 00:51:15.64] land parties and Counter Strike you know

[00:51:12.44 --> 00:51:19.12] same thing for work like but before work

[00:51:15.64 --> 00:51:20.96] it's the same thing so there there is a

[00:51:19.12 --> 00:51:24.40] solution there doesn't have to be a

[00:51:20.96 --> 00:51:27.44] physical office for the company true uh

[00:51:24.40 --> 00:51:30.56] where the drains uh company's budgets

[00:51:27.44 --> 00:51:33.40] for rents and leases and furniture and

[00:51:30.56 --> 00:51:35.76] electricity and all of that stuff mental

[00:51:33.40 --> 00:51:38.72] health and you can enjoy like yeah and

[00:51:35.76 --> 00:51:41.20] you can be yourself and be an extrovert

[00:51:38.72 --> 00:51:43.64] meet new people and all that stuff

[00:51:41.20 --> 00:51:45.88] so yeah that's good that's a good point

[00:51:43.64 --> 00:51:48.88] yeah I think

[00:51:45.88 --> 00:51:50.88] uh yeah like on the whole topic of like

[00:51:48.88 --> 00:51:52.92] uh work parties and co-working spaces

[00:51:50.88 --> 00:51:54.36] and cafes cuz I I find myself going to

[00:51:52.92 --> 00:51:58.12] cafes maybe twice a

[00:51:54.36 --> 00:52:01.24] week okay okay yeah yeah it it helps

[00:51:58.12 --> 00:52:03.32] like to change the routine a bit right

[00:52:01.24 --> 00:52:05.64] also it's good for the mental health to

[00:52:03.32 --> 00:52:09.00] be outside the house getting some sun

[00:52:05.64 --> 00:52:10.92] exposure vitamin D in the sun right yeah

[00:52:09.00 --> 00:52:14.16] definitely especially if your room is

[00:52:10.92 --> 00:52:16.44] like without any Windows

[00:52:14.16 --> 00:52:18.88] definitely bro I was in a basement when

[00:52:16.44 --> 00:52:21.12] I first uh hope my none of my old bosses

[00:52:18.88 --> 00:52:23.20] are listening right now but like I was

[00:52:21.12 --> 00:52:27.20] in the first few years of my career like

[00:52:23.20 --> 00:52:30.64] when I was like 23 24 I was like we had

[00:52:27.20 --> 00:52:33.12] a basement where the soul Tech Guy

[00:52:30.64 --> 00:52:35.04] basically yeah typically yeah uh and

[00:52:33.12 --> 00:52:39.16] then we had the the we called the

[00:52:35.04 --> 00:52:43.68] marketing Associates that would uh call

[00:52:39.16 --> 00:52:45.40] up uh like apartments and collect data

[00:52:43.68 --> 00:52:47.88] so that we could decide what Market to

[00:52:45.40 --> 00:52:50.76] build in in terms of like competitive

[00:52:47.88 --> 00:52:53.16] real estate was what it was and all that

[00:52:50.76 --> 00:52:55.68] data would feed into my uh system that I

[00:52:53.16 --> 00:52:58.28] had built at the time a small company

[00:52:55.68 --> 00:53:01.60] and the basement was very very cold and

[00:52:58.28 --> 00:53:03.84] very very dark so no windows and if you

[00:53:01.60 --> 00:53:06.60] set like the temperature on the like

[00:53:03.84 --> 00:53:10.32] thermostat if you set that to you know

[00:53:06.60 --> 00:53:12.60] 68 Fahrenheit or 20 Celsius whatever 18

[00:53:10.32 --> 00:53:14.12] Celsius it would get much colder in the

[00:53:12.60 --> 00:53:15.28] basement because cold air naturally

[00:53:14.12 --> 00:53:17.92] moves

[00:53:15.28 --> 00:53:20.56] down but the rest of the building would

[00:53:17.92 --> 00:53:22.20] be decent and I remember all the

[00:53:20.56 --> 00:53:24.72] management levels were like like based

[00:53:22.20 --> 00:53:26.68] on floor so so the top floor had the big

[00:53:24.72 --> 00:53:29.28] boss say then the middle floor had like

[00:53:26.68 --> 00:53:31.68] the bis Dev guys like the the EXs and

[00:53:29.28 --> 00:53:34.72] then the bottom Hadar of people the

[00:53:31.68 --> 00:53:36.68] marketing people and yeah yeah like the

[00:53:34.72 --> 00:53:37.76] The Tech Guys and I would get there and

[00:53:36.68 --> 00:53:40.92] it

[00:53:37.76 --> 00:53:43.76] was it was such a like I love the people

[00:53:40.92 --> 00:53:47.00] that work there and I learned a lot but

[00:53:43.76 --> 00:53:48.68] as I didn't know how to think about it

[00:53:47.00 --> 00:53:50.44] at the time I didn't know there was an

[00:53:48.68 --> 00:53:52.40] alternative and I didn't know if it was

[00:53:50.44 --> 00:53:54.16] okay to even think about saying I'm

[00:53:52.40 --> 00:53:56.96] going to stay at home and

[00:53:54.16 --> 00:53:58.76] work and I would get to work and we had

[00:53:56.96 --> 00:54:01.28] to put on like the you know the whole

[00:53:58.76 --> 00:54:03.44] formal attire like if we didn't put on

[00:54:01.28 --> 00:54:06.04] like a button-up shirt like

[00:54:03.44 --> 00:54:06.72] slocks you might get you know the CFO of

[00:54:06.04 --> 00:54:10.36] the

[00:54:06.72 --> 00:54:11.96] company saying like like bro what's up

[00:54:10.36 --> 00:54:13.92] did you read the company manual like you

[00:54:11.96 --> 00:54:15.04] would get comments like that and it's

[00:54:13.92 --> 00:54:16.64] happened before where like in the

[00:54:15.04 --> 00:54:20.16] kitchen somebody would be in a

[00:54:16.64 --> 00:54:22.60] T-shirt and I remember being with the he

[00:54:20.16 --> 00:54:25.60] was the owner of the company uh older

[00:54:22.60 --> 00:54:27.60] guy very old school similar to probably

[00:54:25.60 --> 00:54:29.16] like some of our parents and stuff and

[00:54:27.60 --> 00:54:29.80] there was somebody new that was wearing

[00:54:29.16 --> 00:54:31.80] a

[00:54:29.80 --> 00:54:35.04] t-shirt and the owner of the company

[00:54:31.80 --> 00:54:36.60] looked at me he's like hey for us who's

[00:54:35.04 --> 00:54:39.64] this

[00:54:36.60 --> 00:54:40.92] clown did he not get the company manual

[00:54:39.64 --> 00:54:43.00] and the guy was just standing right

[00:54:40.92 --> 00:54:45.72] there and he was like oh yes sir yes sir

[00:54:43.00 --> 00:54:47.00] I'm GNA shake your hand um oh my God and

[00:54:45.72 --> 00:54:48.20] he's like no sir I still haven't gotten

[00:54:47.00 --> 00:54:49.88] to that section but I'll make sure I

[00:54:48.20 --> 00:54:52.00] read it and I was just like man how

[00:54:49.88 --> 00:54:54.92] embarrassing is that

[00:54:52.00 --> 00:54:56.60] one two like on the whole topic of set

[00:54:54.92 --> 00:54:58.48] time times during the day and like

[00:54:56.60 --> 00:55:02.04] energy levels what was saying like in

[00:54:58.48 --> 00:55:04.52] the afternoon if it was so we'd try to

[00:55:02.04 --> 00:55:09.08] be there at 8:30 every morning if it was

[00:55:04.52 --> 00:55:11.68] 8:45 8:40 you could be working till 10

[00:55:09.08 --> 00:55:15.68] p.m. the night before I would get a call

[00:55:11.68 --> 00:55:18.24] from my boss that said hey are you

[00:55:15.68 --> 00:55:21.16] okay and I would be like yes I'm okay I

[00:55:18.24 --> 00:55:24.08] just slept in 15 minutes you

[00:55:21.16 --> 00:55:25.88] know and I think that kind of formed my

[00:55:24.08 --> 00:55:29.32] uh I don't want to say extremism but

[00:55:25.88 --> 00:55:34.04] like my extreme hatred

[00:55:29.32 --> 00:55:35.52] for uh basements one without windows I

[00:55:34.04 --> 00:55:37.00] got a window right across from me right

[00:55:35.52 --> 00:55:38.88] now well working in a basement because

[00:55:37.00 --> 00:55:41.04] you will literally become vitamin D

[00:55:38.88 --> 00:55:42.40] deficient and eventually die if you

[00:55:41.04 --> 00:55:44.92] don't supplement it like that's how bad

[00:55:42.40 --> 00:55:46.60] if we think about it uh and my

[00:55:44.92 --> 00:55:49.20] despisement of saying like because I

[00:55:46.60 --> 00:55:50.96] would get there at 8:30 and like I said

[00:55:49.20 --> 00:55:53.24] I'd be on Hacker News I'd be on slash do

[00:55:50.96 --> 00:55:55.24] at the time I would be talking to my

[00:55:53.24 --> 00:55:57.56] colleagues making my coffee I wouldn't

[00:55:55.24 --> 00:56:00.24] actually start work till maybe 10:30

[00:55:57.56 --> 00:56:02.52] imagine if that 2 hours were instead

[00:56:00.24 --> 00:56:04.32] spent in bed and then I come in at 10:30

[00:56:02.52 --> 00:56:05.92] and everything is just 10 times better

[00:56:04.32 --> 00:56:09.36] in my head so that's kind of my

[00:56:05.92 --> 00:56:11.44] extremist uh opinion and and story on

[00:56:09.36 --> 00:56:14.96] maybe how this formulated in my head I'm

[00:56:11.44 --> 00:56:19.24] wondering how the clothing translates

[00:56:14.96 --> 00:56:22.56] into better work or more productivity

[00:56:19.24 --> 00:56:25.44] cuz I mean yeah of course pajamas are

[00:56:22.56 --> 00:56:29.08] not the best choice of clothing

[00:56:25.44 --> 00:56:32.56] no obviously not a student tie is also

[00:56:29.08 --> 00:56:36.08] too limiting to be comfortable eight

[00:56:32.56 --> 00:56:38.60] hours a day so especially with the yeah

[00:56:36.08 --> 00:56:41.16] well I can understand that um if you're

[00:56:38.60 --> 00:56:42.84] doing client calls where you're going to

[00:56:41.16 --> 00:56:45.64] have a video on you're doing meetings

[00:56:42.84 --> 00:56:48.96] right yeah you might have a decent shirt

[00:56:45.64 --> 00:56:51.88] on but or like sweater like nothing

[00:56:48.96 --> 00:56:53.64] student tie related that will force me

[00:56:51.88 --> 00:56:56.44] to be more

[00:56:53.64 --> 00:57:00.60] productive that's

[00:56:56.44 --> 00:57:01.92] yeah uh funny story from my dad uh we Al

[00:57:00.60 --> 00:57:04.44] we always talk about this stuff like

[00:57:01.92 --> 00:57:05.68] work related stuff so I'm telling him

[00:57:04.44 --> 00:57:07.48] like you don't have to wear a suit and

[00:57:05.68 --> 00:57:09.92] tie to like go to work and stuff like

[00:57:07.48 --> 00:57:11.36] that just wear a normal t-shirt jeans

[00:57:09.92 --> 00:57:13.84] whatever he's like he thinks you're

[00:57:11.36 --> 00:57:15.80] crazy I no he says okay for like

[00:57:13.84 --> 00:57:18.16] designers and developers do whatever you

[00:57:15.80 --> 00:57:20.84] want I don't care just get the work done

[00:57:18.16 --> 00:57:23.96] but uh for the sales team for

[00:57:20.84 --> 00:57:26.08] example like if a sales representative

[00:57:23.96 --> 00:57:27.60] came to my company from another company

[00:57:26.08 --> 00:57:29.40] like he's selling something and he's

[00:57:27.60 --> 00:57:31.60] like t-shirt and jeans I would throw him

[00:57:29.40 --> 00:57:32.92] out of the off respect true true no he

[00:57:31.60 --> 00:57:34.84] said I would throw him out of the office

[00:57:32.92 --> 00:57:36.60] I don't care who you are you should wear

[00:57:34.84 --> 00:57:40.96] a suit and tie if you're s so it's just

[00:57:36.60 --> 00:57:42.96] funny that certain yeah um like jobs

[00:57:40.96 --> 00:57:45.20] require you for some reason to wear a

[00:57:42.96 --> 00:57:47.16] suit and tie a uniform unifor like

[00:57:45.20 --> 00:57:49.28] banking you know they all wear suits so

[00:57:47.16 --> 00:57:50.96] I don't know why but yeah you don't want

[00:57:49.28 --> 00:57:53.12] the guy handling your money to be not

[00:57:50.96 --> 00:57:56.80] dressed appropriately right I think

[00:57:53.12 --> 00:57:56.80] that's what it is the guy or girl

[00:57:57.44 --> 00:58:02.36] trustable yeah I don't trust you give me

[00:57:59.84 --> 00:58:04.56] my money back like that's what happens

[00:58:02.36 --> 00:58:07.00] uh yeah professions is interesting I can

[00:58:04.56 --> 00:58:09.76] see why you know sales folks bisav like

[00:58:07.00 --> 00:58:12.96] people that are meeting frequently with

[00:58:09.76 --> 00:58:14.36] clients need to I don't think it has to

[00:58:12.96 --> 00:58:17.16] be a suit I just think they need to look

[00:58:14.36 --> 00:58:20.28] presentable yeah and like right but I

[00:58:17.16 --> 00:58:21.68] think the easy way of that is what's

[00:58:20.28 --> 00:58:23.52] accepted in society just to wear any

[00:58:21.68 --> 00:58:25.60] suit and you're good to go but you can

[00:58:23.52 --> 00:58:27.44] like if you look fine who cares

[00:58:25.60 --> 00:58:28.68] uh well on that like since we're talking

[00:58:27.44 --> 00:58:30.80] about our dad's stories it's funny

[00:58:28.68 --> 00:58:34.56] because my dad went to University in

[00:58:30.80 --> 00:58:37.28] Egypt and uh he said back in the day

[00:58:34.56 --> 00:58:39.32] this was long time ago he said that when

[00:58:37.28 --> 00:58:42.48] they would if imagine you were in a

[00:58:39.32 --> 00:58:44.68] lecture hall filled with uh 500 people

[00:58:42.48 --> 00:58:44.68] or

[00:58:44.80 --> 00:58:49.44] whatever you would if you were to walk

[00:58:47.16 --> 00:58:53.56] in in

[00:58:49.44 --> 00:58:56.76] jeans the professor would call you

[00:58:53.56 --> 00:58:58.92] out and in front of everybody yeah I had

[00:58:56.76 --> 00:59:00.72] the same and this is University this

[00:58:58.92 --> 00:59:02.72] isn't like a sales meeting this isn't

[00:59:00.72 --> 00:59:04.28] this is University MH and if I look at

[00:59:02.72 --> 00:59:05.40] like our like my father's generation

[00:59:04.28 --> 00:59:08.04] it's very interesting like they're

[00:59:05.40 --> 00:59:10.28] always dressed up like they're always uh

[00:59:08.04 --> 00:59:12.16] it's been ingrained this trousers you

[00:59:10.28 --> 00:59:14.68] know the he might be wearing trousers to

[00:59:12.16 --> 00:59:17.88] the beach it's okay always ready for a

[00:59:14.68 --> 00:59:18.84] formal meeting or maybe a wedding you

[00:59:17.88 --> 00:59:21.52] never know when you're going to be

[00:59:18.84 --> 00:59:24.20] invited yeah yeah you know right right

[00:59:21.52 --> 00:59:26.24] they got the pen always like I don't

[00:59:24.20 --> 00:59:28.36] know if you're carries a pen like my dad

[00:59:26.24 --> 00:59:30.00] used to carry a pen yeah cuz he's a

[00:59:28.36 --> 00:59:32.28] doctor you know he got to write stuff

[00:59:30.00 --> 00:59:33.92] down you might yeah yeah like imagine

[00:59:32.28 --> 00:59:35.76] like like you always have a pen on you

[00:59:33.92 --> 00:59:38.04] it's like you having your phone I guess

[00:59:35.76 --> 00:59:39.96] you know yeah it's I can't imagine

[00:59:38.04 --> 00:59:42.00] carrying a pen like I had the same

[00:59:39.96 --> 00:59:43.60] experience in University you know but

[00:59:42.00 --> 00:59:46.56] with shorts not jeans like if you would

[00:59:43.60 --> 00:59:48.20] wear shorts to the you would get called

[00:59:46.56 --> 00:59:51.24] out by the professor you get called out

[00:59:48.20 --> 00:59:53.48] really I got called out once that's

[00:59:51.24 --> 00:59:55.56] crazy then I learned a lesson never wor

[00:59:53.48 --> 00:59:59.60] especially in a man where like it gets

[00:59:55.56 --> 01:00:01.24] super hot I'm wondering w how would hell

[00:59:59.60 --> 01:00:03.32] yeah bro I'm wearing shorts right now

[01:00:01.24 --> 01:00:05.84] like I'm wearing a tacher in

[01:00:03.32 --> 01:00:07.56] shorts oh man like they're old school

[01:00:05.84 --> 01:00:10.76] professors you know like how dare you

[01:00:07.56 --> 01:00:13.00] wear shorts to my lecture how dare you

[01:00:10.76 --> 01:00:14.56] him yeah you're offending his lecture

[01:00:13.00 --> 01:00:16.24] you're saying this lecture is not

[01:00:14.56 --> 01:00:18.60] important enough for me to wake up early

[01:00:16.24 --> 01:00:20.96] and get dressed and chewing gum like

[01:00:18.60 --> 01:00:22.64] that offends them for some reason yeah

[01:00:20.96 --> 01:00:24.56] and working remotely probably offends

[01:00:22.64 --> 01:00:25.96] them because you're not showing up yeah

[01:00:24.56 --> 01:00:28.60] so I almost think it's a generational

[01:00:25.96 --> 01:00:31.40] thing and I honestly I don't know maybe

[01:00:28.60 --> 01:00:33.36] we'll revisit this in 10 15 years like I

[01:00:31.40 --> 01:00:35.84] don't think like I have nephews and nces

[01:00:33.36 --> 01:00:39.68] I don't think they're going to know what

[01:00:35.84 --> 01:00:41.80] it's like to sit in traffic where work

[01:00:39.68 --> 01:00:43.80] sit in traffic and go into an office for

[01:00:41.80 --> 01:00:45.32] nine hours a day I think they might have

[01:00:43.80 --> 01:00:47.16] that Dynamic of like a hybrid

[01:00:45.32 --> 01:00:48.64] environment where they go in maybe do

[01:00:47.16 --> 01:00:51.20] workshops brainstorming but I don't

[01:00:48.64 --> 01:00:52.32] think they'll have that routine of like

[01:00:51.20 --> 01:00:56.00] I am going to

[01:00:52.32 --> 01:00:58.76] spend what amounts to literally 33.3% of

[01:00:56.00 --> 01:01:02.84] my day maybe more if we account for

[01:00:58.76 --> 01:01:05.28] traffic in a specific place even though

[01:01:02.84 --> 01:01:08.84] I'm only productive for maybe 50% of

[01:01:05.28 --> 01:01:11.40] that 33% so it's going to be more around

[01:01:08.84 --> 01:01:13.88] look time is money I value my time I

[01:01:11.40 --> 01:01:16.04] value my freedom and I'm going to do an

[01:01:13.88 --> 01:01:18.72] effective five to six hours of work a

[01:01:16.04 --> 01:01:21.52] day and then spend the rest of my 18

[01:01:18.72 --> 01:01:24.88] hours or 19 hours you know eight of them

[01:01:21.52 --> 01:01:27.56] sleeping and 10 of them enjoying uh

[01:01:24.88 --> 01:01:31.32] actual life like imagine like the new

[01:01:27.56 --> 01:01:34.40] new generation asking for a uh a leave

[01:01:31.32 --> 01:01:37.20] to just take an hour and do an errand

[01:01:34.40 --> 01:01:39.28] like during office hours yeah imagine

[01:01:37.20 --> 01:01:42.12] that I don't think they'd accept it

[01:01:39.28 --> 01:01:44.52] especially dude the up and cominging you

[01:01:42.12 --> 01:01:46.32] know right now teenagers like growing up

[01:01:44.52 --> 01:01:47.80] going to University and then to the to

[01:01:46.32 --> 01:01:51.36] the workforce I don't think it's going

[01:01:47.80 --> 01:01:52.84] to be acceptable like no I think if they

[01:01:51.36 --> 01:01:55.00] have skills like I think it's not

[01:01:52.84 --> 01:01:56.40] acceptable right now if you have skills

[01:01:55.00 --> 01:01:58.68] like if you have skills right now and

[01:01:56.40 --> 01:02:00.88] you value your your mental health your

[01:01:58.68 --> 01:02:03.76] personal health your

[01:02:00.88 --> 01:02:05.52] freedom you are not willing to accept it

[01:02:03.76 --> 01:02:07.60] generally if you're in a profession that

[01:02:05.52 --> 01:02:08.88] supports it again like if you work in a

[01:02:07.60 --> 01:02:10.20] factory and you got to physically do

[01:02:08.88 --> 01:02:11.56]  like you got to be there like

[01:02:10.20 --> 01:02:12.92] that's fine but if you're doing

[01:02:11.56 --> 01:02:15.08] knowledge work if you're doing

[01:02:12.92 --> 01:02:18.40] especially programming like what we do

[01:02:15.08 --> 01:02:21.36] design uh project management uh anything

[01:02:18.40 --> 01:02:25.88] that involves thinking and documenting

[01:02:21.36 --> 01:02:28.32] things is uh is very is is the only way

[01:02:25.88 --> 01:02:31.28] to go in my mind

[01:02:28.32 --> 01:02:35.20] yeah um I think to wrap up we can all

[01:02:31.28 --> 01:02:38.40] agree that we're all pro uh remote work

[01:02:35.20 --> 01:02:41.76] and we've all had our experiences toxic

[01:02:38.40 --> 01:02:45.48] and horrible experiences dealing with

[01:02:41.76 --> 01:02:48.04] office life U especially considering the

[01:02:45.48 --> 01:02:51.76] fact that we all came to real

[01:02:48.04 --> 01:02:53.92] realization that having your own time

[01:02:51.76 --> 01:02:56.80] having your own routine habits and

[01:02:53.92 --> 01:03:00.16] everything everything else set up uh

[01:02:56.80 --> 01:03:01.96] always uh contributes to a more

[01:03:00.16 --> 01:03:06.32] stressfree a more productive and

[01:03:01.96 --> 01:03:11.48] efficient work day and workflow overall

[01:03:06.32 --> 01:03:14.60] and it all comes to trusting uh your

[01:03:11.48 --> 01:03:17.96] teammates as a company owner and being

[01:03:14.60 --> 01:03:19.92] accountable as a team member and being

[01:03:17.96 --> 01:03:23.44] communicative because I think in any

[01:03:19.92 --> 01:03:26.04] kind of relationship bid uh friendship

[01:03:23.44 --> 01:03:28.92] bid or romantic relationship beat the

[01:03:26.04 --> 01:03:31.60] actual work relations you have within

[01:03:28.92 --> 01:03:34.28] your team you need to be Comm as

[01:03:31.60 --> 01:03:37.16] communicative as possible as transparent

[01:03:34.28 --> 01:03:39.92] as possible as proactive as possible

[01:03:37.16 --> 01:03:42.64] because all those keys that we have

[01:03:39.92 --> 01:03:45.80] discussed during the podcast have come

[01:03:42.64 --> 01:03:48.88] to the idea that communication is key

[01:03:45.80 --> 01:03:52.64] and trust and accountability will result

[01:03:48.88 --> 01:03:55.60] in great effective remote work and even

[01:03:52.64 --> 01:03:58.20] if sometimes we we get the need to be

[01:03:55.60 --> 01:04:01.28] socialized within remote work there's no

[01:03:58.20 --> 01:04:04.84] need to be isolated so it doesn't have

[01:04:01.28 --> 01:04:07.24] to be lonely and depressive to be in a

[01:04:04.84 --> 01:04:10.00] remote company but there are solutions

[01:04:07.24 --> 01:04:13.12] to that as well and even if you're an

[01:04:10.00 --> 01:04:15.28] extrovert you can always have a a coffee

[01:04:13.12 --> 01:04:19.20] outside with your work friends or just

[01:04:15.28 --> 01:04:21.36] friends in a co-working area and I think

[01:04:19.20 --> 01:04:23.92] we've all come to a decision and

[01:04:21.36 --> 01:04:25.00] hopefully convinced some startup owners

[01:04:23.92 --> 01:04:28.20] or

[01:04:25.00 --> 01:04:31.52] uh people who are in the just joining

[01:04:28.20 --> 01:04:34.24] the workforce uh to understand that it's

[01:04:31.52 --> 01:04:37.80] about your mind it's about the output

[01:04:34.24 --> 01:04:40.96] you give and not the suit you wear or

[01:04:37.80 --> 01:04:44.04] the time you show up at the office so it

[01:04:40.96 --> 01:04:46.32] all comes down to the results

[01:04:44.04 --> 01:04:47.80] yeah yep so we're going to leave here

[01:04:46.32 --> 01:04:49.64] right now and install some monitoring

[01:04:47.80 --> 01:04:52.64] software on everybody's

[01:04:49.64 --> 01:04:55.56] laptops take pictures

[01:04:52.64 --> 01:04:58.16] everyone that's a joke guys for any just

[01:04:55.56 --> 01:05:00.56] to make sure it

[01:04:58.16 --> 01:05:03.04] doesn't who

[01:05:00.56 --> 01:05:05.84] knows all right well I guess thank you

[01:05:03.04 --> 01:05:08.32] all right any final words no that was a

[01:05:05.84 --> 01:05:11.04] good summary Mariana enjoyed it I think

[01:05:08.32 --> 01:05:12.80] uh I think this was a fun chat uh more

[01:05:11.04 --> 01:05:15.80] to come you know we want to try to keep

[01:05:12.80 --> 01:05:17.92] this uh natural in the sense that look

[01:05:15.80 --> 01:05:19.20] we're just uh keeping it casual talking

[01:05:17.92 --> 01:05:21.60] about things that we're passionate about

[01:05:19.20 --> 01:05:23.80] things that we like MH uh talking about

[01:05:21.60 --> 01:05:25.84] topics that honestly we would have had

[01:05:23.80 --> 01:05:27.84] this conversation with or without this

[01:05:25.84 --> 01:05:29.76] being a podcast to record it because

[01:05:27.84 --> 01:05:32.80] it's it's a passionate topic that we

[01:05:29.76 --> 01:05:34.92] care about and I hope to get more people

[01:05:32.80 --> 01:05:38.72] to think the way we think definitely

[01:05:34.92 --> 01:05:41.16] terms not forced into this podcast

[01:05:38.72 --> 01:05:43.76] recording no yeah yeah yeah nobody was

[01:05:41.16 --> 01:05:45.48] forced nobody although I I do wish we

[01:05:43.76 --> 01:05:48.44] would have scheduled it not on Thursday

[01:05:45.48 --> 01:05:53.40] yeah we'll talk about that later okay so

[01:05:48.44 --> 01:05:56.72] I guess uh wait for more episodes and

[01:05:53.40 --> 01:06:00.76] see you next time time guys bye-bye bye

[01:05:56.72 --> 01:06:00.76] bye bye take care everyone

[01:06:03.72 --> 01:06:06.72] bye

‍